2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

2002tony
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby 2002tony » Wed May 23, 2018 3:59 pm

TheFan wrote:Last Year I think the SCL was better than the Sunset due to MV, with CDM now in the league and Marina out..it is closer.
Lets see how it goes, if MV is up (semi's), SCL is better, but the gap has tighten. Yes CDM folks are pretty confident, it will be fun to see it plays out. I spent most of my life on the CDM side of the bay...

not picking on what you wrote Fan or your opinion just used your post to join in on this part of the conversation.
As far as I can tell there is still a clear separation between the Sunset and SCL more then just MV tipping the scales. Obviously with MV there is a clear TEAM that out weighs everyone else in both leagues. Lets take them out of the equation.
We are talking about aa overall league then and last year you could say that Tesoro, San Clemente, was on par or competitive with LA and Edison, but the rest of the Sunset was not competitive.
Last year Trabuco Hills was in the SCL and it would have lost to Edison and LA but they were better then the rest of the Sunset IMO.
San Juan Hills lost to Edison last year and the year before but they were competitive and were better then the lower 4 teams in the Sunset.
El Toro is moving up into the SCL this year and they beat Tesoro last year so IMO they too are better then the bottom 4 of the Sunset.
Capo V moves into the SCL this year and they would have been competitive with Edison and LA and much better then the bottom 4 of the Sunset.
With CDM moving up I see them as clearly better then what was the bottom 4 also, but no more competitive then Capo who is now moved up for this year and just as competitive as Capo was last year.
So I would call it a draw with CDM and Capo moving up into each of their respective leagues.
Summary would be that all the teams in the SCL would have beaten the bottom 4 teams in the Sunset and would have given at least a competitive game with the top 2 and now 3 with maybe Trabuco always coming out on the losing end to the top 3 teams.

I feel that one of the big differences (as noted in this thread) for teams moving up in competitive levels is the line play and can that team stop the run to get the ball back for that team offense to score before time becomes a factor to put pressure of its own kind on a team.

as a point of reference to the time and speed of a game as teams move up, HTL and I have talked about this before that when LH first started playing MV , even after all those lower CIF Div Championships and appearances, it was very apparent that Mazzotta and his staff was on a learning curve of their own with the level of competition and the clock became an opponent also in just getting a play called on time or not having the sidelines in a state of confusion at many points in the game. It just is not the players who have to experience what it is to play up.

Even Bob Johnson and staff after having so many not so tough games would pull a brain fart when the competition got much harder, like calling a time out to get the punt team on the field. So what if you took a 5 yard delay of game penalty at the 35 yard line when you are punting the ball away anyway? !!! It was not going to make that big of a difference compared to needing a time out at the end of the half.



TheFan
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby TheFan » Wed May 23, 2018 4:19 pm

Tony, not looking to argue just a little different perspective
I went to the FV/TH game. FV gave them the game. FV had better players...long story short. I would put money on FV in a rematch. TH game plan was one of those one and done plans.
Last year the Sunset was really down, so using one year as a gauge it not the best way to approach.
HB started a frosh QB many times, the best players were juniors, it was just one of those cycles. They will be improved, two kids with D1 offers, maybe best LB in the league and should lead league in tackles, need O line to improve so they can run the ball. I have spoken to some on their staff and they will be better. I would not be surprised if materially better this year.
FV, Nolan showed last year improvement and I am hearing there is more growth on their end. I expect them to be better than last season, much like HB. I refuse to talk about silly passing league, but from what I hear much much better. They looked vastly improved at the linemen comp too. Looked like a real team.
Newport was not expected to be great, but how low they went surprised many it will take a couple years, but there are athletes at Harbor, coach just needs to get them out.
CDM fans at the club (dad's kids on the team) tell me they are lock to win league, and the three above have zero chance of competing so this is a huge benefit to the league power ratings.
Edison, I think they will be just as good or better based on what I have seen. Lets see
Los Al, despite losing the brain trust of the OC Bucs, will be right there battling for second after CDM dominates the league.

So going forward I expect the league to be deeper than 2017, lets see how it plays out, last couple years SCL clearly better, but these are just kids, it makes it fun watch and see.

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Thu May 24, 2018 7:16 am

@2002tony, CDM woulda beat Capo last year without a question or a doubt in my mind. I think we can all agree not one game nor one common opponent is a true prognosticator of a match up that didn't happen however there are three games from last season in which bot CAPO and CDM played a common opponent and all three CDM fared far better than Capo.

CDM dominated EL Toro on the road more than doubling up the score 39-15. Capo was actually down at the half to ET before coming from behind in the second half 26-14. CDM also on the road dominated Trabuco Hills only giving up a TD in the last minute to the Mustangs with the second string unit playing the Q4. Again CDM beat TH by a larger margin than Capo did.

Come playoffs CDM hung until the final play in a one possession game all night against DOWNEY losing a nail biter 49-42. CAPO got beat handily in the next game by DOWNEY 41-21. CDM hung evenly against DOWNEY and CAPO got dominated and DOUBLED UP on the score.

If we agree not one game is a tell tale sign but three certainly is. CDM was a notch above CAPO last season. Most of the 2017 campaign had CAPO ranked above CDM and what I really wanted most was that match-up but CDM fell a drive short. Very tough loss to a very good Downey team.

TheFan
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby TheFan » Thu May 24, 2018 4:26 pm

SK,

Could you enlighten me on who the CDM D1 prospect are? I know you have a tall WR/TE and the jr QB is getting looks, anyone else, another WR and maybe a lb and d linemen ?

thanks

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Thu May 24, 2018 6:30 pm

CDM for the most part is a young team. The Sophomore class is very tight and has much talent. Many of these kids played on the championship Newport Seahawks. The Sea Kings did however recently lose General Booty the highly anticipated future star to a Texas school... another story on another thread.

CDM had a major QB comp on the table, Frosh. Booty and Soph. Garbers. Ethan the younger brother of Chase Garbers now a D1 redshirt Freshman at Cal. It was going to be a big issue at CDM with these two but the Booty exit solved that quickly. Although young, Ethan is getting looks already,

Here is a link from a OC Register covering promising Sophomores. There are two CDM players on the list, not a single other Sunset player mentioned. Take out the Trinity players from the list and you have a pretty good idea who are some of the promising public kids from the 2020 class next year, Ethan is one. https://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/18/o ... to-emerge/

Here is a HUDL link to the Huntington scrimmage..., CDM Varsity ran up 20 points in Q1 giving up zero and they moved on to the skills part of the day. In the JV game Ethan ate HB kids lunch and took their money.


I have not been able to make a real assessment of where he is in comparison to other athletes in his class or even to his brother which many want to compare. It has not been easy for the kid as he has his brothers shoes to fill at CDM and was going to be in a battle against Booty to even get the job. Well he has it now lets see how the summer goes.

As for the receiving corp it is lights out. John Humphrys has 5 PAC-12 offers now the most recent from Stanford. This kid is legit, he is the younger brother of stand out played Ben Humphries and at 6'5 going to make waves in the OC. I can tell you MD was not happy he chose to stay at home in CDM.

JHumphCard.png


Mark Redman is the Sophomore TE at 6'5" and 250 and just got his first D1 call today from SDST. I assure you they will be rolling in over the next two years.

MRedmanAztec.png
MRedmanAztec.png (204.87 KiB) Viewed 571 times

Recent add to the team is MD transfer, or I should say recent kid to come home is Bradly Schlom yet another Sophomore. Great to have the local kid back playing with his mates.

All these kids have played years together, they are performing at a high level so far beating every team they faced in 7v7 tourneys losing just once by only a point/score to Narbonne. CDM beat San Clemente and dominated Edison.

By the end of this upcoming season you will have 3 possibly 4 kids with D1 offers on offense. Last year CDM ran point son everyone even in defeats against JSerra and Downey. Expect more of the same this upcoming season.

2002tony
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby 2002tony » Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 pm

I dont see how Capo Valley goes from D4 to D2 in one swoop without being the Division Champs in any year. That is a lot of teams to pass up.

2002tony
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby 2002tony » Thu May 24, 2018 11:24 pm

SK80 wrote:@2002tony, CDM woulda beat Capo last year without a question or a doubt in my mind. I think we can all agree not one game nor one common opponent is a true prognosticator of a match up that didn't happen however there are three games from last season in which bot CAPO and CDM played a common opponent and all three CDM fared far better than Capo.

CDM dominated EL Toro on the road more than doubling up the score 39-15. Capo was actually down at the half to ET before coming from behind in the second half 26-14. CDM also on the road dominated Trabuco Hills only giving up a TD in the last minute to the Mustangs with the second string unit playing the Q4. Again CDM beat TH by a larger margin than Capo did.


SK80, I understand all that you wrote and I will even say I think that if the two teams were to play that CDM could always stand on its own in the game if not win it. I was saying that both teams are just as competitive not saying that they would win or lose but would be just as competitive as the other.

I know you want to say CMD is just better then Capo but it is not so easy to say that without them playing each other. As we both agree that you cant look at games played against other teams and pick a winner or which team would be better if they played each other instead.

Yes in the Downey game CDM played a much better game against them did Capo, that is without question, but here is where it gets murky with one game that you pointed out.
We both know that match ups in games can make a difference in scores and there is always injuries and so one that will cause a difference in any one game. There is also a play or two that could have gone differently that could change the scoring. I think you over stated your case with the Trabuco Hills game by just looking at the score. That did not come close to telling how well or not CMD or Capo played.

take one or two plays out of this game that dont happen every game like a pick 6 and long fumble recovery and the score would not be so lopsided.

lets just look at the Trabuco game, this is not to argue the point but to just show a different perspective to that game.

CDM scored 28 points, CMD started the game with a nice drive for a TD, That is all CMD did in the first Qtr.
Game Changer, Starting Sr. QB for Trabuco comes out of the game with a injury and will not return and So. QB in.
3 min left in the 2nd qtr (CMD has done nothing the whole 2nd Qtr up to this point) Trabuco QB completes a shot pass but the receiver fumbled the ball after reception and it was returned 35 yard to the Trabuco 15 yard line where on the next play a short 15 yd pass for a TD. 14 - 0 now.

After kickoff Trabuco's So QB throws a 25 yard or so Pick 6 for CDM's 3rd score. Not having their Sr. QB is now showing up against a good team like CMD and is a very big disadvantage for Trabuco in a game, I think you would agree.

That could be the reason they had no Offense for most of the game. CDM ended the game with 237 yard total offense, 150 in the air and 85 on the ground. Trabuco ended the game with about 215 total yards in the game. that is pretty close in yards and take in the fact they had a backup QB that tells a different story line of why the score was the way it was.

Also, if not for the fumble that was returned 35 yard to put the ball on the 15 CMD didnt show any great offense other then the opening drive. take that one fumble back and CMD may have only had 7 points in the first half. not so Dominant of a showing as some may have thought the way you said it.

now take the Capo vs Trabuco game, no pick 6 and now long fumble recovers for Capo to score on, but, Trabuco does get a fumble recovery inside the Capo 20 that sets up for the first score of a 15 yard pass. 7-0 Trabuco.

Next the Trabuco QB does hit a reciver for a 59 yard pass but no score however he connects again later for an 80 yard pass play when the DB makes a mistake for Trabucos 2nd and last score. I mention these because Trabuco will end the game with 271 total yards (242 in the air and 29 on the ground) of offense and 140 of that came on those 2 plays.
Capo on the other hand will end the game with 437 yards total offense showing they had dominated most of the game but just did not put the ball in the endzone so many times with their 188 yard running game that ate up the clock.

So if I had to look at those two games, I would say that Capo had beaten Trabuco in a far more convincing way with Trabucos Sr starting QB in the game the whole time.

Just a different perspective and why you cant look at just the score either.

I will take Capos 437 yards of total offense and 4 TDs and their run game over CDM's 237 yard of total offense with 3 offensive TDs with one on a short field any day to show who had a better game. 150 yards passing for CMD with 85 on the ground to Capos 229 passing and 188 on the ground giving Capo almost twice as many yard in the game then CMD.

These two games against Trabuco were one week after the other and based on these numbers and how the games were played may be why most picked Capo over CMD in ranking them as it would appear that Capo would have beaten CMD if they played the next week against each other. I dont see how you could have said it is clear that CMD would have won the game based on the Trabuco game.

If you took your emotions away and just looked at the numbers and how I presented the facts in the game, take the names of the teams out of it, I think it is compelling debate that Capo was more Dominant against Trabuco then CMD. (even if it was by a 7 point larger margin)

That is just one of the reasons I say that both teams are about equal in being new competitive teams added to the mix of the two leagues.

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:51 am

Tony r u kidding, if I remember CDM blanked TH until the final minute it was 28-0. Trabuco put up a gimme TD against the second string kids with just ticks on the clock....... "under a minute".

TrabucoHill.png

I also am sure coach O' Shea didn't run up on his old alma mater! I will also add that if the game was as close as you say O' Shea would not have had back up QB Garbers playing in the second half. Either way, one game we can agree may not be tell tale all, but come on dude three games is plenty to make a comparison.

Bollweevil
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby Bollweevil » Fri May 25, 2018 7:29 am

O'shea Alma Mater is St. Anthony's not Thhs. He coached at THHS.

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:35 am

thnx weevil you are correct and that was my hands ahead of my head...., either way my thought was his tie to the school. That is why we have been playing non league...

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:46 am

not a bad day for Soph. TE Mark Redman..... second D1 offer yesterday from ARIZONA.... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: That gives Soph. QB Garbers two 6'5" D1 Pac-12 scholarship targets for the next two seasons.

MRedZona.png

2002tony
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby 2002tony » Fri May 25, 2018 10:52 am

SK80, I am sure the game was as close as I say it was, it is am matter of record. No I am not kidding but you are kidding yourself if CDM looked THAT impressive and as I said after both games were played most picked Capo over CDM if they were to have played in the next week which is why they were ranked higher.

what I see you cant get your head wrapped around is after the opening drive of the game and CMD scoring a TD.
With 3 min left in the half the score WAS STILL 7-0 and Trabuco had the ball at their 45.
The next time the CDM got into the redzone was after a Trabuco receiver fumbled the ball at the 50 with CDM picking up the fumble and returning it 35 yards to the 15 yard line. If not for the fumble recovery the score probably would have stayed at 7-0 for the rest of the half. No easy 15 yard TD and no Pick 6 right after.

At least Capo's Offense didnt have a short field to score their 3 TDs for their 21 points.
In the write up and explanation of the game I wrote before you want to just over look the fact that Trabuco lost their starting QB in the first Qtr and had to go with their 2nd string So. QB. to claim how CDM D blanked them. Well what was CDM excuse for not having more then 7 points with 3 min left and not having the ball? or only having 237 yards total Offense for the game. You do realize that Gabers had 78 yards passing of that 237 total. After the initial 80 yard opening drive to start the game that does not leave a whole lot of offensive yards left for the rest of the first half before the 15 yard pass play.

As far as Gabers coming into the game it could have been that everyone could see Trabuco was struggling with their back up QB in for the rest of the game. Or maybe he came in because if not for the fumble recovery to the 15 yard line for CDMs 2nd score with 3 min left in the half the offense had not moved the ball that much after the opening drive.

Either way, if Capo would have been CDM opponent that night instead of Trabuco, CDM would have lost that game. IMO and a lot of others too.

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TomDrake
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby TomDrake » Fri May 25, 2018 11:40 am

SK80 wrote:not a bad day for Soph. TE Mark Redman..... second D1 offer yesterday from ARIZONA.... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: That gives Soph. QB Garbers two 6'5" D1 Pac-12 scholarship targets for the next two seasons.

MRedZona.png


Congrats to Redman. CDM may have more D1 football offers than the rest of the Sunset League, combined, next fall.

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:03 pm

Sorry Tony its a game that will never happen. But the facts remain in all of those games CDM did better than CAPO. Not one did CAPO do better than CDM. Especially against the highest ranked common opponent DOWNEY. DOWNEY dominated CAPO period. CDM scored twice as many points as CAPO did. CDM was in the game from the final play it was a one possession game all night long. CAPO was never in it against DOWNEY.

Are you a TH alum?

@ TomD, REDMANS offers will start rolling now. HUMPHRIES just got another PAC-12 which is I believe 6 offers from that conference. Those two played a lot last year in which Garbers did not as a sophomore QB. I expect he will make his mark come Fall. The addition of Bradley Schlom has now solidified what was already a dynamic passing game.

2002tony
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby 2002tony » Fri May 25, 2018 7:38 pm

Sk80, I thank you for your passion and support of CDM. We will just have to agree to disagree about the Trabuco game. I would not say that CDM has a better game then Capo did and stand firm that if that game was against Capi on that night CDM would have lost. Except for the opening drive they were flat the rest of the game.

I am not an alum or have any ties to any of the 3 teams I have written about. I just remember making the comparison last year. I have nothing but respect for CDM and you as a matter of fact. We will just have to disagree on our assessment of the Trabuco games.

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Sat May 26, 2018 7:00 am

Respect back at ya.... :thumbsup: ok 2 disagree.

If i follow your last post I actually do not think we disagree on the Trabuco game. In fact there really is not that much difference between a 28-7 and a 28-14 win. I would never judge a team based on one outing. But it still was a game in which CDM did win by more, in fact it was 21- zip at the half and when it became 28-0 coach O'Shea put in the Frosh-Sophs or it would have been 35-0. TH scored with under a minute. That game by CDM although not their best of the season was NEVER in doubt. CAPO on the other hand had a game on their hands giving up two TD's to TH in the first half and holding just a 21-14 lead. This game was way closer.

Again, my entire point was the three games. I'll give ya this was maybe the closest comparison of the three but the other two CDM was far the superior performer against El Toro and Downey. By the way in the TH game it was CDM on the road and it was CAPO struggling at home. Edge again to CDM when evaluating performance.

Bick
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby Bick » Sat May 26, 2018 7:59 am

SK80 wrote:Source of the post @2002tony, CDM woulda beat Capo last year without a question or a doubt in my mind. I think we can all agree not one game nor one common opponent is a true prognosticator of a match up that didn't happen however there are three games from last season in which bot CAPO and CDM played a common opponent and all three CDM fared far better than Capo.


If I could insert a little objectivity here from someone with no dog in this fight...

PROJECT A MATCHUP
neutral field
[2017] Capistrano Valley (Mission Viejo, CA) 28, [2017] Corona del Mar (Newport Beach, CA) 26

While not the be all end all, at the very least the calpreps algorithm should cast some doubt on the thinking CDM would have most certainly beaten Capo last year. It takes all games into account.

SK80
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby SK80 » Sat May 26, 2018 10:09 am

@Bick I use the service as well... however the system has CAPO above CDM. Reason being CDM goes down every win even if score is 70-0 because of Pacific Coast League teams. CDM started the season as well with loss to JSERRA. They couldn't catch a break last year in any of the rankings such as MP's. In the system a 1 point win against a common opponent counts no more than a 40 point win.

Again against three common opponents not one instant on any stat, score or objectivity could you look at Capo and say they were the better team. Not one.

Bick
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby Bick » Sat May 26, 2018 10:34 am

I'm not saying CV is better than CDM. On the other hand, they seem very evenly matched.

I'm taking exception to your statement that CDM would beat CV without question. In order to make that assessment with any credibility, you'd need a clear understanding of both teams' personnel, and come up with a reason WHY player matchups favors one side, and the opponent would have no answer for it.

2002tony
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Re: 2018 Sunset League/DII/DIII

Postby 2002tony » Sun May 27, 2018 9:00 am

SK80 wrote:in fact it was 21- zip at the half and when it became 28-0 coach O'Shea put in the Frosh-Sophs or it would have been 35-0.

well saying it would have been 35 is a long stretch of the imagination.
The whole fact it was 21-0 at the half is factually true but CDM was struggling the whole first half outside of the opening drive. That is a big fact. I will explain below.

SK80 wrote:That game by CDM although not their best of the season was NEVER in doubt.

WOW, what a arrogant statement. Maybe not an arrogant to a fanatic blind fan, but to anyone else I would disagree.
The fact that CDM scored on its opening drive taking up less then 4 min to score might have given you a thought that you might do well in the game, HOWEVER, when the score was still 7-0 at the end of the 1st qtr was it so "NEVER in doubt."?
When half way through the 2nd qtr it was STILL 7-0 ..no doubts that the game was close?

When there was just 3 min left in the first half, and the score was STILL 7-0, no person outside of yourself and maybe the fan base of CDM would have ANY doubts that the game was in the bag.?

How about 3 min left in the half, 7-0 is the score, the other team has the ball at midfield, and the CDM team has NOT gained more then 40 yards in total outside of the opening drive?
That is a qtr and a half with no offense to speak of, and it was clear to anyone that there is "no doubt" that CDM was going to win?

As I said before, if the TH receiver does not fumble the ball OR the LB does pick up the ball and return it 35 yards rather then just falling on it, (So fortunate CDM offense was to have it returned 35 yards for them) because there is no over whelming reason to believe CDM would have scored since they had not gained 40 total yards in a qtr and a half after the opening drive.
Most likely the half would have ended 7-0. So fortunate CDM was.

SK80 wrote:CAPO on the other hand had a game on their hands giving up two TD's to TH in the first half and holding just a 21-14 lead. This game was way closer

at the half the score was close that is true. Implying that CDM had a better game then Capo did at this point in their game is totally a fabrication of your imagination and not looking at the facts. CDM was barely holding on with 3 min left and was so fortunate that there was a fumble return.

The fact that TH did not have their starting QB in the game (after the beginning of the game) makes no difference to you in your assessment is just mindless IMO as most teams( even CDM) would not have done as well without their starting QB in the game.

So, Score was closer that is a fact, at least the Capo team had 3 long drives for a TDs, Capo had more yards in offense in the 1st half then CDM will have in the whole game against TH, If you take away the fumble and two pass plays and TH had (there is nothing else that TH did offensively) and that was with their starting QB in the whole game, You want us to think that CDM had a better game?

SK80 wrote: the way in the TH game it was CDM on the road and it was CAPO struggling at home. Edge again to CDM when evaluating performance.


SK, you really made me laugh at these quotes. To say Capo was struggling? They had a long drive for a TD, they gave up a fumble at their 20 leading to TH having a short pass for a TD, They had ANOTHER long drive for a TD, ( something CDM could not do in their first half) then the DB made a mistake and Capo gave up a 80 yard pass play for a score, ok, then Capo took the ball back down the field after the kickoff and scored again. Something CDM could not do. But you want to say that Capo was STRUGGLING? They had not "struggled" at all. they gave up 2 TDs on a fumble and one long pass, that was all.

Capo ends the game with over 430 yards in total offense compared to CDM having 237 and you want to say CDM gets the edge in performance?
CDM faced the backup So. QB for almost the whole game (not the starter) and you want to boast about shutting them out?

CDM offensively had a very weak performance the whole game outside of the opening drive, and to lay claim to a big defensive performance to CDM shutting TH out with their backup So.QB playing is just as weak. Sorry, but that is just the truth. As you said, not CDM best performance of the season.

(CDM might be lucky that the Sr Starter at QB had to leave the game, or CDM may have lost this game with such a weak performance on offense and they certainly had a big chance of losing if they would have played Capo this week and not TH)

Again I am not trying to say that Capo is better then CDM, I said just as competitive, and I will stand by that statement.

The one thing about playing El Toro in their 3rd game and Capo playing El Toro 5 weeks later in the season, El Toro had gotten much better from when they played CDM.
So much better El Toro went on to beat the 1st place 9-1 team who had only lost to Servite and was the 5th ranked team in Division 3, then went on to beat the unbeaten 11-0 team that was ranked 2nd in the Division. (just food for thought)

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