First Charges filed by Mueller

broman
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby broman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:53 pm

John Q. Public wrote:Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 2m
I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

Well, he almost cast doubt on Flynn's testimony. Until those last two sentences. His violations of the Logan Act were the charges that were dropped in exchange for his singing. Better luck on your next tweet, Don.


Flynn pleaded guilty for lying to the FBI on January 24. Trump meets with Comey on February 14 and says “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Comey quoted Trump saying. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”

Trump is admitting he was trying to protect a person who he had to fire for committing a felony.



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Professor Fate
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:58 pm

Imagine saying, "Everybody makes mistakes, go easy on him, okay?"

String him up!
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby broman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:12 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Source of the post Imagine saying, "Everybody makes mistakes, go easy on him, okay?"


Then you fire the guy because of this "Russia thing".

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:13 pm

What Russia thing? He fired him over not telling the Trump campaign (or anyone) about the Turkish agent thing.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Source of the post Flynn's most serious violation was not registering as an agent of the Turkish Government.

And violating the Logan Act. And possible involvement in (or knowledge of) a kidnapping plot. He had many years' worth of reason to accept the deal to "only" plead to the one felony.
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Wabash
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Wabash » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:54 pm

I'm betting the plea is more about who he gives up.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby broman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:28 pm

Professor Fate wrote:What Russia thing? He fired him over not telling the Trump campaign (or anyone) about the Turkish agent thing.


"I inadvertently briefed the Vice President Elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the Russian Ambassador," Flynn said in a resignation letter. "I have sincerely apologized to the President and the Vice President, and they have accepted my apology."

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Professor Fate
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:17 pm

This may come as a shock to you Broman, but talking to a Russian ambassador is not a crime.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby broman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:06 pm

I'm shocked a person would lie about doing something legal. I'm shocked when you keep defending a person you don't support.

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Professor Fate
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:38 pm

I do support him...I just don't like him.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Wabash
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Wabash » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:25 pm

Professor Fate wrote:This may come as a shock to you Broman, but talking to a Russian ambassador is not a crime.

Negotiating with a foreign government by private citizens is illegal.

Trump tweets that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI.

It's as if though he is throwing him in front of the bus.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:48 pm

First of all, as ABC was forced to admit, he wasn't a private citizen because it was after the election, and he's no longer a private citizen, but was part of the incoming administration.

2. Meeting with foreign officials during the period between the election and the inauguration is not illegal. Obama also did it.

3. Having a conversation and negotiating are two different things.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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John Q. Public
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby John Q. Public » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:04 am

Meeting with foreign officials during the period between the election and the inauguration is not illegal.

However, negotiating to undermine the still-president's policy may very well be.
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Professor Fate
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:20 am

For all you amateur special prosecutors out there, here's an article from 2012 called "Did candidate Obama call world leaders in 2008?"

...Is it normal for presidential candidates to insert themselves into global events by dialing up heads of state? In fact, Obama did pretty much the same thing — multiple times, no less — as a candidate during the 2008 campaign.

Obama, like Romney, embarked on a foreign trip as a candidate, meeting face-to-face with leaders such as Afghan President Hamid Karzai, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert (headline: "Obama Talks Tough About Iran During Visit to Israel"). But he also placed several phone calls.

In January 2008, for example, Obama reached out to the two leaders at the center of a bitterly disputed election in Kenya, his father’s homeland. "What I urged was that all the leaders there, regardless of their position on the election, tell their supporters to stand down," Obama explained at the time. The Bush-era State Department, which coordinated the calls with Obama, praised the effort. "Any time you have a person of stature … who is pushing for a peaceful, political resolution, that’s a positive thing," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

Then, after hostilities erupted between Georgia and Russia in August 2008, both Obama and Republican challenger John McCain phoned Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, while condemning Russia for violating Georgia’s sovereignty. In fact, the candidates called Saakashvili so frequently — the Georgian leader said he heard from them "pretty often" — that it became a bit of a contest; when pressed by Fox News, Saakashvili conceded that McCain had called first but that Obama was "very supportive." In September, the prime minister requested a call with Obama to thank him for mentioning Georgia in his convention speech.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/09/28/did ... s-in-2008/
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby John Q. Public » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:25 am

The Bush-era State Department, which coordinated the calls with Obama, praised the effort.

Notice a difference?
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Professor Fate
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Professor Fate » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:30 am

That was only for the Kenya thing, the way I read it. And even then, only because Obama was born there. :mrgreen:
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

broman
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby broman » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 am

Trump fired Flynn for lying to Pence and the FBI about something Trump claims was perfectly legal. :bonk:

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Wabash
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Wabash » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:59 am

I'm betting Mueller has more than this on Flynn. If that was all there was to it I doubt Flynn would have rolled so quickly.

I'm betting Mueller believes Flynn will lead him to others who were negotiating with the Russians way before election day.

Keep in mind that Trump's latest tweet has him admitting to illegality. He wrote that he fired Flynn for lying to Pence "and the FBI."

If Trump knew on February 13 that Flynn had lied to the FBI—and the President just admitted that he did know—then he's got two big problems. The first is: How did he know Flynn had lied? Did Trump have any involvement in ordering either the lie itself, or the meeting(s) with the Russians that prompted the lie? The second is: If Trump knew that Flynn was guilty of a federal offense on February 13, it means that his conversations with and firing of James Comey were unambiguously intended to cover up a crime. This is a textbook example of obstruction of justice.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby broman » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:21 am

Trump just tweeted he didn't tell Comey to not investigate Flynn. :fan:

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Postby Wabash » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:51 am

Comey documented their meeting differently. Given the number of lies from this president I have more faith in Comey.

The Trump Administration is now saying he didn't write the tweet that has him admitting to obstruction of justice.

A Marx Brothers movie looks better organized than this group.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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