New Leagues

Sixth Man
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New Leagues

Postby Sixth Man » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:55 pm

I haven't heard a lot other than a proposal for a Sunset Conference. Does anybody have any information or does it even matter with the new CIF divisions? I have also heard that the freeway is standing pat while the Garden Grove has decided to break up.



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TommyTrojan
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Re: New Leagues

Postby TommyTrojan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:23 pm

Fryer got much of it right. Most of the proposals have an 8 team PCL with Laguna Beach and Laguna Hills moving in plus the addition of new school Portola. CdM in most cases moves to the Coast View. The Sunset does not want CdM, but would take Crean (the only league to say they even would consider it). Golden West could be completely broken up as Santa Ana, Orange and Loara have asked out. Western has been asking out of the Empire since being moved in years ago. Kennedy and Tustin threw curveballs at the last meeting and asked out of the Empire as well.

GGL would like to see GG out, just not sure how that will work or which team would move in to replace them (likely one of the GWL teams). Century likes what they have and aren't looking to change or add teams. Anaheim asked out of the Orange League, but no idea where they think would be a better fit.

The 2 year cycle is an odd route and was voted on after the 4 year was rejected. However, discussion about the length of the cycle only happened AFTER the vote took place which was stupid. Expect to see Crean spend 2 years in the Sunset or other league and then be placed into the Trinity in 2 years (3 really, since next year is still the current league set ups)

Bick
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Bick » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:50 pm

Empire thoughts...Tustin out to the Crestview; Western back in the Orange; Grove & Marina in the Empire

Sunset...Crean in - Marina out, or CDM in & Marina out...or CDM & Crean both join and then split league into Sunrise (FV, Marina, HB, Crean) and Sunset (Los Al, Edison, CDM & Newport), and then do the 2 yr rotation like Sea View / South Coast.

ocfootball
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Re: New Leagues

Postby ocfootball » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:01 pm

From what I've heard, maybe old info,,,,,

Bring Westminster and OV back to "Sunset" conference, and CDM,,, but kick Los Al,,,,

Biggest pushback coming from OV, reason being trying to protect top notch programs of basketball and baseball,,,,,

CDM refused a week 1 game in FB vs EHS because they assume they will be in Sunset in 2018,,,,,

All propaganda, but there is a kernel of truth in there

frankieboy1
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Re: New Leagues

Postby frankieboy1 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Might it be time for a countywide D1 super public league (football only) comprised of MV, Tesoro, San Clemente, Edison, La Habra, Los Alamitos?

Any other candidates (Villa Park? CDM?))

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Fordama
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Fordama » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:19 am

Los Al, La Habra, and San Clemente in the same league? Not seeing those administrations going for those travel times.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

frankieboy1
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Re: New Leagues

Postby frankieboy1 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:27 pm

football only-and besides they already play each other non-league and in playoffs

probablynot
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Re: New Leagues

Postby probablynot » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:02 am

While it may be true that Laguna Hills' less than 1,500 size school is a bit out of place in the Orange Coast Conference (South Coast/Sea View) realistically who would you replace them with? I think they are stuck.

Since they went into the Sea View League in football in 2010 they are 42 - 41 overall and 14 - 18 in League. Playoff appearances twice in the 2nd Round, three times in the 1st Round and three times out of the playoffs.

I recognize that its more than just football but Laguna Hills is competitive in other sports too and with the new playoff system in football it is difficult to make the case that Laguna Hills should be moved out.

Someone does have to go into the PCL with Portola though unless you simply drop CDM and the PCL stays at six teams - which is what I think will occur.

Bick
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Bick » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:32 am

Fordama wrote:Los Al, La Habra, and San Clemente in the same league? Not seeing those administrations going for those travel times.


Something we can agree upon. :cheers:

Don't see a super football only public league happening. The multi-divisional leagues pretty much ends the argument for such a need.

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TommyTrojan
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Re: New Leagues

Postby TommyTrojan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:59 am

probablynot wrote:While it may be true that Laguna Hills' less than 1,500 size school is a bit out of place in the Orange Coast Conference (South Coast/Sea View) realistically who would you replace them with? I think they are stuck.

Since they went into the Sea View League in football in 2010 they are 42 - 41 overall and 14 - 18 in League. Playoff appearances twice in the 2nd Round, three times in the 1st Round and three times out of the playoffs.

I recognize that its more than just football but Laguna Hills is competitive in other sports too and with the new playoff system in football it is difficult to make the case that Laguna Hills should be moved out.

Someone does have to go into the PCL with Portola though unless you simply drop CDM and the PCL stays at six teams - which is what I think will occur.


Let's define that. No league wins in basketball the past two seasons and no playoff appearances since joining the CVA, baseball won its first league game in 3 years last week. We have been 0-whatever in several sports each season and during this current cycle we have average 1 league win across the 23 sports. Sure, we have had our sports who succeed despite being half the size of every school. It isn't easy to build a program back either when you are getting thumped on the lower levels either (92-2 frosh basketball vs Mission this year) since your freshmen are having to play up due to lack of depth.

Last 3 years in football? 1-9, 8-4, 6-5; 0-4, 2-2, 2-2 in league. 3rd place in league and when you view that from the conference standpoint, that's 8th place in a 10 team league. The new playoff format helps certainly, but only if you can get in. With a 5 team league like this however, that means needing to be top two (no small feat given that you are always going to have one (if not 2) of the big time programs drop down into the SVL). 3rd place means you need to get an at large berth which isn't easy in most of the divisions right now.

I know it is hard to figure out who should replace us (the correct answer is CdM), but we don't belong. We never wanted into this mess in part because we knew it would be hard to get out. It is nice for the rest of the county who can just lump all 10 schools together and don't really care, but its not the right fit. I hope today's vote will fix this.

Sixth Man
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Sixth Man » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:58 am

Why is it that Laguna Hills is always in the middle of it when they re-league? They are enough like Dana, Aliso, and Capo not to warrant a move. They will just have to get better if the want to be in the top half of South Orange County schools. They belong there geographically. There has been far less noise coming out of places like Marina and Sonora despite getting punished in their league.

Doody thang
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Doody thang » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:45 am

So, it's Monday is there any hard news on this?

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TommyTrojan
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Re: New Leagues

Postby TommyTrojan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:53 pm

Sixth Man wrote:Why is it that Laguna Hills is always in the middle of it when they re-league? They are enough like Dana, Aliso, and Capo not to warrant a move. They will just have to get better if the want to be in the top half of South Orange County schools. They belong there geographically. There has been far less noise coming out of places like Marina and Sonora despite getting punished in their league.


Dana and Aliso have over 3000 students. Capo is 2400. Laguna Hills is 1500. Ocean View is geographically a fit with the Sunset, why not clamor for them to be in that league? Los Al is a better geographic fit for the Empire League (where they used to be) Think your Cents or the Leps want them back?

Marina has begged to remain IN the Sunset based on their success in many other non-football sports. Sonora is part of a district league and despite their up and down success in football, they (and the rest of the Freeway) aren't given much choice by their district.

LH is in the middle of this in part because we are smaller than all our neighbors, bat above our weight at times, and pissed off the PCL schools 16 years ago (we are still paying for the way our AD acted back then) Certain schools seem to be the ones who are always trying to find the right fit. Foothill, CdM, Tustin, Los Al, Esperanza are some of the others in various years. Sometimes you find the right place and can stay for a while, sometimes that is hard to do. Trust me, we would love to fit a league that is a good fit and stay there for a while. We just haven't been able to do that since the mid 80's when the PCL was first formed.

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TommyTrojan
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Re: New Leagues

Postby TommyTrojan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:53 pm

Down to the final 3 proposals right now. Final votes coming.

Doody thang
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Doody thang » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:10 pm

I see that fryer posted and tweeted all of that, but he hasn't posted the complete three proposals

Sixth Man
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Re: New Leagues

Postby Sixth Man » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:18 pm

Once againTT makes valid points. I just think you would crush the Irvine schools. I could be wrong.

MDDad
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Re: New Leagues

Postby MDDad » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:03 pm

Sixth Man wrote:They will just have to get better if the want to be in the top half of South Orange County schools. They belong there geographically. There has been far less noise coming out of places like Marina and Sonora despite getting punished in their league.

With all due respect, SM, that’s a little dismissive and condescending, and the same could be said for any school. There are many reasons certain schools don’t “get better” and most of them are beyond their control. If it were as simple as making the decision to do so, everyone would do it.

Tommy Trojan has hinted at two points that deserve further comment. The first is the issue of competitive equity within playoff divisions. Back to at least the 1960’s, imbalance of playoff matchups have been the reality, and most of that imbalance was because of the old rule that required all teams in a league to be in the same playoff division. The CIF-SS and member schools went a long way toward correcting that problem last year.

The second is competitive imbalance within leagues. For reasons that are traditional, geographic, political, district rules, and in some cases vindictive, that problem has not been addressed or corrected. In many county and SS leagues there are teams that don’t belong there because they are too strong or too weak for the rest of the league. Garden Grove, La Habra (until very recently), Laguna Hills, Marina, Long Beach Poly and many others should be assigned to new leagues for one reason or the other.

This takes on added importance because the old playoff qualifier rules have remained in place. A Division 6 team in a Division 3 league will likely find it very difficult to ever finish in the top half of its league and qualify for the playoffs. Even if they are one of the best Division 6 teams in the Southern Section, they will likely stay home when the playoffs begin. That’s not right, and it’s probably the next problem that needs to be addressed.

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TommyTrojan
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Re: New Leagues

Postby TommyTrojan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:10 pm

Sixth Man wrote:Once againTT makes valid points. I just think you would crush the Irvine schools. I could be wrong.


We've actually been pretty balanced with the Irvine school's in football the past 3 years. 0-3, 4-0 (including a playoff win), 3-1 (3 of those coming down to the last play- missed fg, int in end zone, stopped 2pt conversion). Almost every game has been decided by a td or less. 7-4 record not counting Beckman.

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TommyTrojan
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Re: New Leagues

Postby TommyTrojan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:15 pm

I have copies of the three. I'll try to post them when I get to a desktop.

Next step is each league can submit 1 counter proposal (or none) and voting will take place in may for the winner. I'm not sure any proposal will get the 60% needed right now. Too many issues/people upset with each of them to rally that kind of support behind any of them.

Century does not want new people, CdM does not want to stay, sunset does not want cdm just to name a potential flaw in each. Who knows.

cruiser
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Re: New Leagues

Postby cruiser » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:41 pm

Just curious, but why does the Sunset not want CDM in it? It seems like a good fit?

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