Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Donray
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Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Donray » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:46 am

There are a lot of protests by people on the right about stopping deportation of people in the country illegally from being sent back home. Why do the liberals think we should not deport people that have committed a crime out of the country?

Shouldn't the courts and police turn over to ICE anyone being released from jail that is in the county illegally?



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Wabash
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Wabash » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:02 am

You would have a point if immigrants from all nations were treated the same. They aren't. One nation's "refugees" have been treated much differently in the last 50 years.
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ShiftyMutt
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby ShiftyMutt » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:45 am

Why do the liberals think we should not deport people that have committed a crime out of the country?

I'm a pretty sappy liberal and I'm not one to think they should get carte blanche. The problem is our system and conservatives seem to see it as black and white where liberals see the gray, or the human aspect of those that have been here for decades and worked or already have college education here. Part of this is money, another part is safety, like when it comes to sanctuary cities.

Obama was pretty much the deporter-in chief but he never made it an outward issue like Trump has, which has made a difference. The problem with Trump is he creates these protests by fueling people's emotions. Some things just need to be handled methodically and more discrete.

We also just have a crappy immigration system, but they do have rights.

cruiser
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby cruiser » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:01 pm

What rights should people have that knowingly came to the US illegally in most cases knowing that welfare benefits are a sweet deal in the US and are not from a war torn country?

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Vilepagan
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Vilepagan » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:04 pm

Well, there's the whole Constitution thing...
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby broman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:25 pm

The greatest pull factor for illegals is working for small and medium size business trying to save on labor cost.

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John Q. Public
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:31 pm

Constitutionally, they have about the same rights that any other visitors to the country have.
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not4u13
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby not4u13 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:22 pm

I think your question is a bit too broad but I'll make an attempt to answer. We need to look at the situation more critically. Not all illegal aliens are in the same situation, represent the same threat or create the same impact on our country. Pay attention to the details. Don't just label everyone who may have committed some sort of crime with the same broad brush. Treat them as humans.

The point that I hear a lot from law enforcement is that when people fear law enforcement, it gives criminals the upper hand. They get taken advantage of and have nowhere else to go. Crime rises and it affects everyone, legal and illegal. Get ahold of the most violent offenders and get them out, but we no have a very large group of people who are living in greater fear for their livelihood than in a very long time, and that's going to create a whole lot more issues than I think you may realize.
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Professor Fate
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:41 pm

not4u13 wrote:by not4u13 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:22 pm

...The point that I hear a lot from law enforcement is that when people fear law enforcement, it gives criminals the upper hand. They get taken advantage of and have nowhere else to go. Crime rises and it affects everyone, legal and illegal...

Again with that tired old talking point? Listen up! No one...I repeat no one...not even the most militant of the anti-illegal immigration people is asking any law enforcement people to question the legal status of anyone tipping off police about a crime, or anyone who is a victim of a crime. It is the criminals that we want to know about and it is the criminals we want to be notified about, and it is the criminals that we want held for us until we can get there to deport them.

Got it? Sheesh! And if sanctuary cities advocates weren't so dedicated to protecting criminals, they could pass that on to the immigrant communities with simple public service announcements in the media.

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Wabash
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Wabash » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:44 pm

Professor Fate wrote: sanctuary cities advocates weren't so dedicated to protecting criminals,

I've never heard any immigration activists claim they are dedicated to protecting criminals.

Yet another unfounded stereotype.
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John Q. Public
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:22 pm

For reference:

Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Forteenth Amendment - Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The above contain the reasons why "sanctuary" jurisdictions don't "cooperate" and why at least two federal courts have ruled against ICE detainers.
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Donray
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Donray » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:35 pm

Could you please give me your reference where illegal immigrants cannot be deported if the committed a crime.

You are throwing out BS.

Donray
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Donray » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:38 pm

You are again just throwing out your BS with no proof.

So, are you going to provide some proof that not all illegal immigrants that committed a crime are treated differently.

You cannot back up what you say and it appears you lie a lot.

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ShiftyMutt
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby ShiftyMutt » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:58 pm

You just called the constitution BS.

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John Q. Public
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:54 pm

They can be deported - they just can't be held beyond their sentences or held or deported without due process.

And then there's that bit about the feds making policy for state and local authorities, which is also illegal. The Attorney General, of all people, should know that.
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Professor Fate
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:34 pm

The feds may not be able to make policy for the state and local authorities, but they also don't have to pay those entities money for cooperating with the feds, if they, in fact, aren't.

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Vilepagan
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Vilepagan » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:17 am

Professor Fate wrote:The feds may not be able to make policy for the state and local authorities, but they also don't have to pay those entities money for cooperating with the feds, if they, in fact, aren't.


Question...where do the "feds" get all that money?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

not4u13
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby not4u13 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:18 am

PF, I think you are smarter than your comment suggests. It really doesn't matter whether or not you, I or anyone else is asking "law enforcement" to question the legal status of anyone. It matters what the illegal aliens believe and they believe that ICE is "law enforcement". There really is no difference between the local cop and the federal agents. When you have an aggressive and very public policy, you create this fear.

I know a few teacher who have children of illegal aliens in their classroom. The stories since Trump took office and started the very public enforcement actions are horrifying. Kids worry that they will come home and their parents will be gone. That someone will come into the classroom to take them away. Remember, the illegal aliens do understand they are here illegally. They don't want to do anything to call attention to themselves (most of them anyway).

I do think that we should deport illegal aliens who have committed violent acts against others fairly aggressively. I don't think we need to be so public about it and I don't think it includes "any crime" ever committed.
Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountain is going home; that wildness is necessity; John Muir
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broman
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby broman » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:16 am

Side note. Every time this topic comes up, It reminds me of Larry Elder admonishing Black folk based on the ideas that if your job was threatened by illegal immigrants, it was your fault because you lacked the skill set and education level to protect yourself from cheap labor. I sure he spread that message to rust belt white workers. :roll:

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Wabash
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Re: Why do liberals want to protect criminals???

Postby Wabash » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:36 am

This meme is a good response to those in the Rust Belt who believe Trump is going to cause "Help Wanted" signs to start popping up.
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