The 2017 OC Connect High School Football pool starts Thursday 8/24

Get your predictions in here!

Click the X at the upper right to dismiss this message.

We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 14479
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby John Q. Public » Thu May 04, 2017 8:22 am

Republicans "ramming their health care bill down our throats" before the CBO has even had time to open its copy of it. WTFF? Have they completely forgotten their talking points? What's next, bombing our own embassies? Legislating by Executive Order? Oh. Right. That's old news.

In other news, Hobby Lobby and the RNC are now free to call themselves churches, apparently. What a bizarre country this is turning into.


Don't look at me, I just work here.

seeinred
Posts: 1235
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:00 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby seeinred » Thu May 04, 2017 8:59 am

Paul Ryan in July of 2009- "I don't think we should pass bills that we haven't read, that we don't know what they cost..." and, "if we rush this thing through without everybody knowing what it is, then that's not good democracy..."
My oh my, how we have changed. :roll:
https://youtu.be/Hdr49iGZOUw

MDDad
Posts: 10005
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby MDDad » Thu May 04, 2017 10:34 am

Republicans "ramming their health care bill down our throats" before the CBO has even had time to open its copy of it. WTFF?


My oh my, how we have changed.

You ram bills down the opposition's throat when in power, you get them rammed up your butt when you're out of power. You govern by executive order when you're in power, you get buried in executive orders when you're out of power. That's the danger in setting bad precedents.

User avatar
Professor Fate
Posts: 1325
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:11 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby Professor Fate » Thu May 04, 2017 11:13 am

:yeahthat: Not to mention that Obamacare was 2300 pages long and Trump care is about 50 pages.
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

User avatar
ShiftyMutt
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby ShiftyMutt » Thu May 04, 2017 11:32 am

This is about trashing anything and everything with Obama's name in it, no matter how many lives it ruins. As long as it erases Obama from U.S. history.

Congrats. Watch the districts flip now.

User avatar
ShiftyMutt
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby ShiftyMutt » Thu May 04, 2017 11:34 am

Professor Fate wrote::yeahthat: Not to mention that Obamacare was 2300 pages long and Trump care is about 50 pages.


Something typical of the GOP.. take credit for the hard work of others while doing so little in the end

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 14479
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby John Q. Public » Thu May 04, 2017 11:48 am

It took them 50 pages to say "Yer on yer own, Bud. Bummer for you."?

25 pages of it is probably the part where they exempted themselves. They did, ya know.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

cruiser
Posts: 2158
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:42 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby cruiser » Thu May 04, 2017 12:08 pm

Pelosi is having a stroke right now, BTW, Congress is except from Obama care also, I'm betting that there is discretionary funding going to the red/purple states for pre-existing medical conditions on the sly.

Trump could care less about the blue states,will be interesting to see if the senate passes Trump care.

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby kramer » Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm

seeinred wrote:Paul Ryan in July of 2009- "I don't think we should pass bills that we haven't read, that we don't know what they cost..." and, "if we rush this thing through without everybody knowing what it is, then that's not good democracy..."
My oh my, how we have changed. :roll:


He hasn't changed to me. He's just a liberal posing as a Republican.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 20523
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby Wabash » Thu May 04, 2017 4:24 pm

The other soundbite was that the law wasn't legitimate because there were no GOP votes for it.

Regardless, the GOP in the Senate are on their way to killing it.

Senate GOP to Snub House Obamacare Repeal Bill and Write Its Own

Several key Senate Republicans said they will set aside the narrowly passed House health-care bill and write their own version instead, a sign of how difficult it will be to deliver on seven years of promises to repeal Obamacare.

Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, who chairs the Senate health committee, and Roy Blunt of Missouri, a member of GOP leadership, both described the plan, even as the House was celebrating passing its repeal after weeks of back and forth. The decision will likely delay even further the prospect of any repeal bill reaching President Donald Trump’s desk.


Trump and the House GOPs count on the lack of sophistication of how the legislative process functions. They are spiking the ball and firing up the confetti machine and it's not even half time.

OnPolitics Today: Trump praises health care repeal that hasn't happened yet

President Donald Trump and Republicans gathered in the Rose garden Thursday afternoon to cheer, hoot and holler over a repeal of the Affordable Care Act that had yet to happen. A bill to repeal and replace Obamacare made it through the house by four votes on Thursday, but remains miles away from becoming law.

"We want to brag about the plan," Trump said amid political fanfare typically reserved for when bills are, you know, signed.

House Speaker Paul Ryan admitted his Republicans have a ways to go before the bill turns into law, including passage of a Senate version and any reconciliation between that and the House's bill. But on Thursday, Trump basked in the sort-of victory.

"OK, I'm President! Hey, I'm President!" Trump said. "Do you believe it?"


Who am I to tell them that nothing has happened yet? No sirreeee.....
I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

We only started hearing about fake news when we elected a fake president.

User avatar
Professor Fate
Posts: 1325
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:11 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby Professor Fate » Thu May 04, 2017 4:31 pm

John Q. Public wrote:by John Q. Public » Thu May 04, 2017 1:48 pm

It took them 50 pages to say "Yer on yer own, Bud. Bummer for you."?

25 pages of it is probably the part where they exempted themselves. They did, ya know.

Supposedly, the Republicans voted unanimously to remove the exemption for Congress, but, if I understand this right, it will take 60 votes in the Senate to remove it, while only 51 votes will pass the bill?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ion-passes
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 20523
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby Wabash » Thu May 04, 2017 5:07 pm

Best soundbite from someone I heard on CNN.

He told the president.

"People may forget who gave them healthcare, but they won't forget who took it away."
I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

We only started hearing about fake news when we elected a fake president.

broman
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby broman » Thu May 04, 2017 6:16 pm

I not so sure.

In polling by the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation, as few as one in eight whites without a college degree have said they believe the law has helped their own families. Far more of those working-class whites have said they believe the law benefits the uninsured and the poor. Most blue-collar whites, in other words, have seen Obamacare less as a universal program, like Social Security or Medicare, that provides a benefit they consider earned, and more like food stamps or welfare that transfers their tax dollars to recipients they tend to consider undeserving. Many college-educated whites have also held that view, though by less emphatic margins.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... re/512159/

Maybe the new law won't make life better for working-class whites, but it will for damn sure punish the undeserving.

User avatar
Professor Fate
Posts: 1325
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:11 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby Professor Fate » Thu May 04, 2017 6:38 pm

Obama Care was dead already. Earlier today, the only remaining Obamacare insurers in most of Iowa (Aetna and Medico) announced they would probably stop selling plans there next year. Then this afternoon, Aetna announced that they will stop selling plans in Virginia, leaving one insurer with a monopoly in at least 24 Virginia counties.

In addition, Aetna is pondering its future in Nebraska and Delaware, the only other two states where it still sells individual plans. Until this year, the company had sold plans in 15 states.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rough ... le/2622050

Obama Care was a lie from the beginning. Remember "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." Remember "If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan." How about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

broman
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby broman » Thu May 04, 2017 6:56 pm

And the new lie

“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” People covered under the law “can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... y-n2272035

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 14479
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby John Q. Public » Thu May 04, 2017 7:17 pm

WOO HOO! Everybody will have insurance! It'll only cover band-aids and outpatient spleen replacement, but everybody will have insurance!
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 20523
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby Wabash » Thu May 04, 2017 7:24 pm

The jubilation is (for all those who like football metaphors) the equivalent of claiming victory after the first quarter.

This isn't over. It might very well end up being signed as it stands now.

The ACA is still the law of the land and the AHCA is not.
I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

We only started hearing about fake news when we elected a fake president.

broman
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby broman » Thu May 04, 2017 7:26 pm

That damn Donald :bonk:

Seconds after praising his party's efforts to pass a new health-care bill that estimates said would leave millions uninsured, President Trump praised Australia's government-funded universal heath-care system.

“We have a failing health care — I shouldn't say this to our great gentleman and my friend from Australia, because you have better health care than we do,” a tuxedo-clad Trump said at a meeting with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull in Manhattan on Thursday.

Australia has a government-funded health-care system, called Medicare, that exists alongside private insurance. The system is funded in part by taxes, including on the wealthy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... c7b1b16348

not4u13
Posts: 5397
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:00 pm

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby not4u13 » Fri May 05, 2017 5:44 am

I have long been conflicted on the issue of health care. It is a very complex situation. We know that the cost of medical care is very high. Too high. There are several causes, including a convoluted legal system that claims to be protecting people from bad medicine but instead mostly lines the pockets of lawyers. That and the FDA whose rules drive up the cost of even the most simple devices.

The biggest issue really is pre-existing conditions. Insurance is a promise to pay. When the insurance company KNOWS that they are going to have to pay many thousands of dollars before they even issue the policy, the shortfall is going to have to come from somewhere. That somewhere is all the healthy payers. It becomes a tax on the healthy to pay for the unhealthy. That angers some because they believe they are healthy because they take care of themselves and those who are unhealthy haven't put in the effort. That's completely wrong of course. Pre-existing conditions that cost a lot of money for the insurance companies are often birth defects or terminal illnesses such as cancer.

From a purely financial perspective, forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions is a disaster. Morally, it's the only right thing to do.

I have never liked the ACA and many of the things that it did. Too complicated and too many unintended consequences. Luca did a good job of describing those from the medical provider's point of view. One of the provisions that I thought was absolutely neccessary was the coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Most of us know that this provision is waived by carriers for large employers. If you go onto a group plan where the employer is paying a large portion of the premium and including coverage for all of it's employees, then the carrier agrees to cover everyone from day one, even for pre-existing health issues. I've taken advantage of this when changing jobs. The only change the ACA introduced was requiring it for private health plans.

So here we are, another ill-advised legislative attempt to "fix" something that needs a complete overhaul.

Oh, and don't think that the Australia plan is a good model for us. Citizens there suffer tremendously from a very broken system. Members of my extended family live and the tell of having to bring your own blankets and pillows when seeking medical treatment due to the very long waits.
Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountain is going home; that wildness is necessity; John Muir
http://www.quotesdaddy.com

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 14479
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it

Postby John Q. Public » Fri May 05, 2017 8:31 am

Insurance is a promise to pay.

For-profit insurance is a rigged casino game. That so few people see that and so vociferously support the "casinos" and allow them to fix the odds are the biggest problems.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

Return to “National”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 1 guest