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Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Space, the environment, new discoveries and new uses for old ones
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Fordama
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Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:11 am

The attacks on science along with the uncritical acceptance of information on the internet are leading to a definite dumbing-down of our nation. Actually, I don't think that dumbing-down is a strong enough term.

Flat Earthers--it used to be an insult, now there are actually more and more of them stepping forward. From the Denver Post:

He is at the epicenter of a budding movement, one that’s coming for your books, movies, God and mind. They’re thousands strong — perhaps one in every 500 — and have proponents at the highest levels of science, sports, journalism and arts.

They call themselves Flat Earthers. Because they believe Earth — the blue, majestic, spinning orb of life — is as flat as a table.


http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/07/co ... vity-hoax/


This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby kramer » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:45 am

I dated a woman not too long ago who said the earth was flat and that the moon landing was faked. That ended my interest of dating her.

I have never met anybody in my life who said such things. Thought it was mostly BS until I heard her say those things.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

Bick
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Bick » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:33 am

What is now being called an "attack" on science used to be called a debate. Now if there is no concurrence with a scientific theory, name calling becomes the MO. Funny thing is, most of true science is just theory, and there are very few indisputable "Laws", yet positions by the political folks are being taken as though they are grounded in some scientific law.

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Fordama
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:40 pm

The phrase "just a theory" is the ultimate, yet frightening, example of scientific literacy. People don't even understand what that word means.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Bick
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Bick » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:03 am

Completely agree with you - I don't think many understand the scientific method and the progression from hypothesis to
theory to law. What's more frightening is the action being touted as a result of a hypothesis, the notion that the science is "completed or done" at the hypothesis level, and the ridicule of those who question the hypothesis. That's downright scary.

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Fordama
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:38 am

I don't think many understand the scientific method and the progression from hypothesis to
theory to law.


I would hope not, given that there is no "progression" from theory to law.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Bick
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Bick » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:30 am

You're right. I misstated this. Theories do not progress to law.

The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic.
A law describes a single action, whereas a theory explains an entire group of related phenomena. It is
important to note that while theories can be tweaked, they are seldom, if ever, entirely replaced.
To better understand the differences let's look at the analogy made using a slingshot and an
automobile.
A scientific law is like a slingshot. A slingshot has but one moving part--the rubber band. If you put a
rock in it and draw it back, the rock will fly out at a predictable speed, depending upon the distance the
band is drawn back.
An automobile has many moving parts, all working in unison to perform the chore of transporting
someone from one point to another point. An automobile is a complex piece of machinery. Sometimes,
improvements are made to one or more component parts. A new set of spark plugs that are composed
of a better alloy that can withstand heat better, for example, might replace the existing set. But the
function of the automobile as a whole remains unchanged.


http://www.lake.k12.fl.us/cms/lib05/FL0 ... stions.pdf

Now let's discuss the scientific theory that's being used as the foundation for the argument that the majority of climate change is man made. It would be fun to have an apolitical discussion of science.

MDDad
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby MDDad » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:59 am

One need look no further than nutrition science for an example of just how transient scientific knowledge can be. Every few years the science of nutrition seems "done" and we believe we fully understand what's good for us and bad for us to eat. And every few years that certainty is turned upside-down by new evidence or research. No science is ever done.

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Fordama
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:37 am

It's like we're making a headlong rush back to the middle ages in our country.

Yeah, nutrition science is just like every other science.

So I'm not going to go outside today because, well, physics says gravity will keep me firmly anchored to the ground, but since there is differences in nutritional science, physics could have it wrong and I may fly off into space.

Oh wait, maybe the Earth is flat!
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Bick
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Bick » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:54 am

You're comparing Newton's Law to a nutritional hypothesis? I think you just made my argument.

MDDad
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby MDDad » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:05 am

Ford, I have no idea what you were trying to say in that last post.

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kramer
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby kramer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:19 am

I have no idea either but you can bet its the result of left-wing emotional hysterics...
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Fordama
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:02 am

MDDad wrote:Ford, I have no idea what you were trying to say in that last post.

Commenting on the ridiculousness of your analogy about nutritional science.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

MDDad
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby MDDad » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:31 am

Respectfully, climate science, with all its uncertainties and failed predictive models, has a lot more in common with nutrition science than it does with Newton's laws of gravity. I'd expect a learned man to see that.

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kramer
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby kramer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:36 am

Fordama is upset because by pointing out the issues with nutritional science, he thinks its an attack on climate scientists and climate science in general. This threatens him in some way.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Fordama
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:20 pm

Just remarking on the slightly different version of the stupid old canard: "science used to think the Earth was flat." Only it's more ironic in a thread about people I consider idiots because they think they world is flat.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby kramer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:22 pm

That's BS. You feel threatened because another science field isn't so stellar in its work and you fear that questioning this field of science could carry over to questioning climate 'science.'

That's what I do here, I want people to question climate 'science' so I point out the holes, lies, exaggerations, politics, contradictions, etc. of climate science in order to stop global socialism (and a few other democrat wishes/desires) from taking root.

Tell you what, how about the entire world excluding the US go green? I'd be happy with this, would you?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

Bick
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Bick » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:20 pm

kramer wrote:That's what I do here, I want people to question climate 'science'


That's what real scientists want, and I believe most conservatives are doing...challenging the both the data and the implications. Why WOULD we want to hurt the planet? Pollution is a bi-partisan issue.

By virtue of his pointing out my mistake in differentiating scientific theory and law, Ford is clearly versed in the scientific method. Testing and re-testing hypothesis, and challenging the cause of the outcomes is the cornerstone of this. His strong arguments are either disingenuous, or have been completely corrupted by his political bias.

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Fordama
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby Fordama » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:30 am

kramer wrote:That's BS. You feel threatened because another science field isn't so stellar in its work...?


Nope, but keep up the dialectic, komrade.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Political and Religious Attacks on Science

Postby kramer » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:37 am

It's clear you feel threatened because another science field isn't so stellar in its work and you think it could carry over to questioning climate 'science'. That's a valid fear, I get it.


"Nope, but keep up the dialectic, komrade."

The komrade moniker fits you better than me. Why?

1) Because it's useful idiots (not you, right?) who say and believe exactly as you do that if win, will lead us to a socialist (and possibly worse) global government.

2) And what country has been paying off our environmental NGOs? The Russians.

You're on the same side as the Russians and those pushing for CO2 equity/reduction which will lead to global socialism (communisum-lite).
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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