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Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

ventura
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Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby ventura » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:06 pm

So much back and forth on this subject. So much ignoring of valid points on both sides, and talking past other's posts.

I've been on both sides of the fence with the team I've followed. Pride, Poise, and Courage have NOTHING to do with winning championships now....that's done by assembling all-stars by any means necessary.

I'm not a hater and yes, I enjoyed Crespi's wailing on MD ten or eleven years ago with hired guns. So I even relate to the joy Monarch fans feel right now.

What I hate, and it's a "healthy hate", is the current system and how it reflects, in a certain way, a culture in decline. A culture with less and less pride, poise, or courage. HSFB is meaningless in the grand scheme, of course, but in an American culture where men are in retreat, a band of brothers doing battle against worthy foes is a good lesson for young men. I think that lesson is at minimum diluted by what has happened in D.1 HSFB, and may well be a tool for giving football players a lousy world view about how success is to be achieved as they go forward in life.

I'm wondering if MD fans on this board would still be touting so heavily Pride, Poise, and Courage if the admin. decided to cool it on outside talent, and the program suffered in the win/loss column.

And this is not directed at MD posters on the board. They are fans of the current champions, and they are the current defenders of how their championship was obtained. This is not intended to denigrate the players or their effort. They are kids getting mentored, IMO, wrongly.



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Professor Fate
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Professor Fate » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:44 pm

Sensational post Ventura! Of course, you do realize that you will now will be labeled a jealous hater like Luca, Domingo, Buck, and myself (among many others), who can see what's wrong with today's transfer culture.

We have missed you on this board. And Like Luca who feels the way he does, while having pride in Loyola's restraint (concerning the transfer game), I know you feel the way you do, despite the extra losses Crespi suffers by Troy Thomas' refusal to raid other teams, just to get an extra W or two. And you still have pride in the Celts.

Don't be a stranger, Ventura.

p.s. That 48-26 win over the Barkley led Monarchs really was AWESOME! Didn't like Crespi's 13-10 O.T. win the next week though. :mrgreen:
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

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jb914
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby jb914 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:48 pm

What I hate, and it's a "healthy hate", is the current system and how it reflects, in a certain way, a culture in decline. A culture with less and less pride, poise, or courage. HSFB is meaningless in the grand scheme, of course, but in an American culture where men are in retreat, a band of brothers doing battle against worthy foes is a good lesson for young men. I think that lesson is at minimum diluted by what has happened in D.1 HSFB, and may well be a tool for giving football players a lousy world view about how success is to be achieved as they go forward in life.


I mentioned in my thread that High School Football is now what College Football was 20 years ago. That is never going to change we have crossed that bridge.

The training and tools have vastly improved player performance in all sports and that's been happening for decades.

The kids that are competing at D1 are competing for exposure and scholarships at the next level and the competition is intense. You may not like it, but, that is the reality today. This is not just in football, it's just seen more since football is such a big sport in High School and is televised.

I've been involved with club sports and on a club board since 2012. The problem is not the kids, the problem is not the coaches, the problem is not the officials.

The problem is the parents.

Take the incident with the ski mask, who put the kid up to that? It was the parent, not the kid, not the school, not the coaches.

There are still a lot of good parents that teach their kids about competition and how those skills are transferable to life and career. But, those are not the parents you hear about. You hear about people like Lavar Ball and his circus antics which in my opinion encourages the next parent to have a "hold my beer....." moment.

Here are some things that I have witnessed:

I've seen Parents slap kids and belittle them in front of anyone present
I have seen parents take legal action to get coaches fired
I have seen clubs blow up from parents trying to inject their expert knowledge of how things need to be only to see the entire club implode in chaos
I have seen parents leave kids at a club competition because of the kids poor performance
I have seen parents ground kids based on how they performed in their sport
I have witnessed parents chewing out coaches based on how their kid was being coached or not coached or played or not played or........well you get the picture?

There is a lot more, but,on the advice of counsel, I cannot comment.

If you want to place blame, The problem is the parents.

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Ramon
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Ramon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Ironic that you where silent during the Thomas/Corona Express Days...Ventura has better tact and seems to not have an agenda...Although short of wholesale change of the current High School Athletics landscape...I can't figure out what the detractors you listed above seek to achieve by trolling any thread involving Mater Dei...
Never Underestimate The Heart Of A Monarch
2017 Trinity League and CIF-SS D1 Champions

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Three old guys whose teams are now cellar dwellers suddenly getting religion and patting each other on the back for standing up for American culture, men
and general righteousness...well, warm my cockles
Oct. 25: "One of the great memories of all time"
Nov.02: "I don't remember much about that meeting..."

How stupid is our country?
Donald Trump

ocfootballfan
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby ocfootballfan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 pm

I was a fan of a Trinity team years ago and still follow them somewhat today. A friend who had a son playing for that team tried to recruit me to financially support the team and maybe even consider housing a few players. It wasn’t MD but it’s just gone too far for me.

ventura
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby ventura » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:39 pm

Thanks Fate! The avatar is classic. Agree JB - parents guide this deal one way or another. Omar - you are 2 for 2 in foolish responses to my rare posts. Hopefully, you aren't a parent! You are probably (hopefully) just trolling. You mentioned me being a 15 year old girl for predicting an easy win for MD a week or so ago. With friends like you, the MD faithful hardly needs enemies.

I don't visit often, but this is a great site with mostly very well informed and articulate HSFB crazies.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Professor Fate » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:58 pm

You're welcome, Ventura.

The avatar is of course, from "The Great Race." It's one of my all-time favorite characters, from one of my all-time favorite movies.

About a month ago, I saw a post, supposedly by Professor Fate on the "Golden State" board, and was going to complain to the mods that someone had hacked my acct. But then I realized that my user name on that site isn't Professor Fate. #-o :mrgreen:
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:07 pm

ventura wrote:Source of the post You mentioned me being a 15 year old girl for predicting an easy win for MD a week or so ago.

Don't lie about what I wrote, Ventura...feel free to post the entire quote
Oct. 25: "One of the great memories of all time"
Nov.02: "I don't remember much about that meeting..."

How stupid is our country?
Donald Trump

MDDad
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby MDDad » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Sensational post Ventura! Of course, you do realize that you will now will be labeled a jealous hater like Luca, Domingo, Buck, and myself (among many others), who can see what's wrong with today's transfer culture.

But, but, but Professor, your school has had more transfers than mine for four years in a row. So are you more upset with your school than mine?

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:21 pm

They've devised a workaround for that, there are now virtuous transfers and evil transfers...I'm sure the Professor will run through the criteria for you
Oct. 25: "One of the great memories of all time"
Nov.02: "I don't remember much about that meeting..."

How stupid is our country?
Donald Trump

ventura
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:16 pm

Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby ventura » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:Don't lie about what I wrote, Ventura...feel free to post the entire quote


I don't lie - post the second, inaccurate part of your post if you want to take the time. The 15 year old girl comment was trolling aimed at me, which is fine, but you should at least be honest with yourself. I was posting an honest assessment of the match up based on the two games I saw Bosco play, I was right, but you posted your usual stupid stuff designed to insult, and doubled down on it with a second response. Of course, you'd never admit you were dead wrong.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Professor Fate » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:29 pm

MDDad wrote:Source of the post But, but, but Professor, your school has had more transfers than mine for four years in a row. So are you more upset with your school than mine?

No, I'm upset that we have to do it at all, because of MD and Bosco.
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

MDDad
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby MDDad » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:42 pm

But, but, but Professor, Servite was getting transfers in greater numbers, and offering vanpool rides, and offering greatly discounted tuitions years before Mater Dei. Now I'm really confused. Who exactly are you upset at?

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:44 pm

ventura wrote:Source of the post...the 15 year old girl comment was trolling aimed at me, which is fine

Nope. Since you're obviously not the girlfriend of a player, it was of course the second part of the quote, which you left out, that was directed at you...the part about wanting to diminish the significance or validity of the competition. You assumed and were wrong, which is fine.
Oct. 25: "One of the great memories of all time"
Nov.02: "I don't remember much about that meeting..."

How stupid is our country?
Donald Trump

ventura
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:16 pm

Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby ventura » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:59 pm

"ventura wrote:
Source of the post...the 15 year old girl comment was trolling aimed at me, which is fine


Nope. Since you're obviously not the girlfriend of a player, it was of course the second part of the quote, which you left out, that was directed at you...the part about wanting to diminish the significance or validity of the competition. You assumed and were wrong, which is fine."[/blockquote]
***********************************************************************************************************************************

Whatever Omar. Arguing with you is a like I imagine it would be to argue with a 15 year old girlfriend of a player. I'm sure they're on this board regularly, which is why you mentioned it. No matter. You mistook my prediction for a dig at MD when I was paying them kudos. My prediction was based on what I already stated in my last post, and based on them being a more talented, and far more disciplined squad.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Professor Fate » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:04 pm

MDDad wrote:Source of the post But, but, but Professor, Servite was getting transfers in greater numbers, and offering vanpool rides, and offering greatly discounted tuitions years before Mater Dei. Now I'm really confused. Who exactly are you upset at?

That statement is not even close to being accurate. Gary McKnight, and the Mater Dei lawsuit, oh, that's right, I mean the Diocesan lawsuit cough, cough, against the CIF.
Things under Obama got a lot worse before they started to get better – and they only started to get better after the GOP took over half of Congress and put the brakes on spending.

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:33 pm

ventura wrote:Source of the post You mistook my prediction for a dig at MD

You mistook my quote as directed at you when there were probably a score or more posters (gender unknown) predicting a blowout

BTW you're officially in the clear, a 15-year-old girl would know how to use the quote function
Last edited by Omar Bongo on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ramon
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby Ramon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:22 pm

Professor Fate wrote:That statement is not even close to being accurate. Gary McKnight, and the Mater Dei lawsuit, oh, that's right, I mean the Diocesan lawsuit cough, cough, against the CIF.

Servite's overnight rise that coincided with Corona Pop Warner using it's Anaheim facilities, Vanpool and heavily discounted tuition predated the Diocesan Lawsuit...I'll give you McKnight...But let's at least be honest...In football, Servite was the innovator...All the other Trinity League schools followed suit...They are just better at it than you guys now

MDDad
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Re: Pride, Poise, and Courage, revisited

Postby MDDad » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:34 pm

Professor Fate wrote:That statement is not even close to being accurate. Gary McKnight, and the Mater Dei lawsuit, oh, that's right, I mean the Diocesan lawsuit cough, cough, against the CIF.

Professor, if you're going to move the goalposts like that, the polite thing to do would be to say, "Get ready, Dad, I'm going to move the goalposts now, OK?"

You may not remember, but high-profile transfers have been going on for well over 50 years. In 1966, Ron Pharris was a big tailback who was also one of the fastest sprinters in the state. His controversial transfer to Anaheim turned them from a good team into an excellent one. The next year George Fraser came in as a sophomore QB, and Anaheim went on to win their first CIF championship. In the late 1970's Kerwin and Dino Bell transferred to Edison, and they turned a good program into the best program in the county for most of a decade. In the entire decade of the 1990's, when Mater Dei was at its peak, they got three impact transfers -- Derek Sparks, Kelvin Millhouse and Tyler Kruse. That's three in ten years.

This transfer mania didn't reach epidemic proportions until the early 2000's, when Orange Lutheran and Mission Viejo began to bring them in by the truckload. And that has nothing to do with Gary McKnight, Mater Dei basketball, or a diocesan lawsuit. So let's move the goalposts back where they belong, OK?

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