How long I wonder?

templar83
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How long I wonder?

Postby templar83 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:28 am

In this era of uber political correctness one has to wonder how long it will be before some knight-errant will focus his, or her, version of social disapproval on some of the sports mascots of our local schools. The ghastly term "rebel" has already been dealt with, but there are others that may be adversely, albeit subtly, affecting our communities.

We have for example BRAVES at SJB, and INDIANS at Fullerton, COMANCHES over at Canyon, VAQUEROS at Rancho Alamitos , MATADORS at La Quinta and FIGHTING IRISH raging at Kennedy.
Just a few illustrations of the potentially offensive language that has somehow taken root in some school districts.

Most, of course, have avoided such objectionable lexicons, I mean who can take issue with Butterflies, Tillers, Patriots, Chargers and the like? And over at CDM they are significantly ahead of the crowd with Sea Kings AND Sea Queens, now that's forward thinking.

Still, how long I wonder...



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watchersince68
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby watchersince68 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:54 am

Keep wondering. You must be retired.

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Fordama
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby Fordama » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:20 am

templar83 wrote:In this era of uber political correctness one has to wonder how long it will be before some knight-errant will focus his, or her, version of social disapproval on some of the sports mascots of our local schools. The ghastly term "rebel" has already been dealt with, but there are others that may be adversely, albeit subtly, affecting our communities.

We have for example BRAVES at SJB, and INDIANS at Fullerton, COMANCHES over at Canyon, VAQUEROS at Rancho Alamitos , MATADORS at La Quinta and FIGHTING IRISH raging at Kennedy.
Just a few illustrations of the potentially offensive language that has somehow taken root in some school districts.

Most, of course, have avoided such objectionable lexicons, I mean who can take issue with Butterflies, Tillers, Patriots, Chargers and the like? And over at CDM they are significantly ahead of the crowd with Sea Kings AND Sea Queens, now that's forward thinking.

Still, how long I wonder...
Easy guide: If you name a team after an oppressed ethnicity, there may be a problem.
If you name a team after a job, there probably won't be a problem.

That's why Vaquero, Gaucho, or Matador aren't a problem. As far as Fighting Irish goes, that's generally been considered an honor in that community.

A number of tribes have agreements with schools over the use of their name as a mascot.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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John Q. Public
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:39 am

Naming a team after Satan didn't go over well in South County. But the politically-incorrect godless eventually prevailed.
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templar83
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby templar83 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:48 am

watchersince68 wrote:Keep wondering. You must be retired.


Well thought out response, worthy of you...

MDDad
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby MDDad » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 am

Fordama wrote:As far as Fighting Irish goes, that's generally been considered an honor in that community.

Interesting. So Fighting Irish is OK, but Fighting Mexicans or Fighting Puerto Ricans would be offensive?

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John Q. Public
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:56 am

Polling would seem to indicate "yes," especially in the southern part of the state.
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Fordama
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby Fordama » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:02 am

Given the origin of the name, and its acceptance in the community, yes.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Fordama
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby Fordama » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:07 am

I remember when I first started coaching in OC in 1989. My first couple of years were at a virtually all-black high school in LA. I take my team to a tourney at Savanna, and I walk in that gym and was thinking "are you f-n kidding me!" The Confederate flag, etc. Yikes!

Being unfamiliar with OC, I was then wondering if I was going to walk into a gym with a giant swastika inside.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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watchersince68
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby watchersince68 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:12 am

Templar
Touche and deserved. However I have found worrying about the insane stupidity of certain groups that have an exorbitant amount of time to want to change names of the Stanford Indians, Atlanta Braves, the Tomahawk chop are
so full of self righteousness I find it a waste of time AND heritage. We had Confederates, we have Indians (they own plenty of Casinos), there is still a lot of Irish running around it and they are part of history. Braves, warriors, Irish
monikers are certainly not demeaning but an Honor to be preserved.

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John Q. Public
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:13 am

People in Indiana are also okay with "Hoosiers," which actually is derogatory.
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Fordama
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby Fordama » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:28 am

I marvel at those who would fight to keep racist caricatures on the basis of "heritage" or "history." Charles Manson is part of California history, but I wouldn't want to see the Los Angeles High School Slashing Mansons.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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jb914
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby jb914 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:06 pm

12 posts and we are quickly approaching Godwin's law......

MDDad
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby MDDad » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:09 pm

Fordama wrote:I marvel at those who would fight to keep racist caricatures on the basis of "heritage" or "history.

So why isn't Fighting Irish a "racist caricature"?

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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby SK80 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:14 pm

Thus we have this, a picture is worth a thousand words.......

stanford-tree.jpg

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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby SK80 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:16 pm

Because the Irish see themselves in a positive light even with all their imperfections and less than glorious parts of history.

I'm part Irish and you can call me a drunk anytime MDad.... :cheers:

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John Q. Public
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:34 pm

This video might explain it. Sorry for the length, but it's a good watch. And sorry again because I think CBS had Part 2 (in which Senator Webb's "fighting spirit" is actually kind of maddening) taken down.
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Fordama
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby Fordama » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:39 pm

MDDad wrote:So why isn't Fighting Irish a "racist caricature"?

History. The name is derived from the Fighting 69th--the Irish Brigade that fought for the Union during the Civil War.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Fordama
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby Fordama » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:42 pm

I can top that tree. The new Copper Mountain College mascot, the Fighting Cacti!

It actually looks pretty cool on their t-shirts, though.
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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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John Q. Public
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Re: How long I wonder?

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:58 pm

South Bend's other big ethnic group is Poles. That one they might have had a problem with, but Irish? Nah.
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