Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

BBB
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Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby BBB » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:21 am

Elite football teams like a Bosco and MD face an interesting dilemma with their future choices in their arms race for talent.

Does MD, for instance, continue on their recent path of expanding their geographical footprint for elite players, super junior and senior transfers, as well as continuing the elevation of their middle school recruitment and development (i.e., JT studying with Money since elementary school) of their future stars?

Unlike basketball, there is no open division playoff for football right out of the gate. The risk these elite schools run is to get so much better for too long before the rest of the Southern Section ostracizes them. Football coaches are already getting plenty upset at the rising disparity.

I’m sure at least MD is smart enough to do the calculus right now in just how far they’ll push it and what the consequences might be.

My question is why not fully embrace it and push it even further, like a Bishop Gorman or IMG does, and simply structure your program essentially like a prep school and play a national schedule against top ranked teams like these other programs do?

You’d have Bosco, MD, IMG, Bishop Gorman, De La Salle, De Matha, Corona Centennial, Allen (Texas), Miami Central, etc. You could even create regional leagues and progress into a true national championship playoff.

I’m pretty confident you could get a major apparel company to sponsor it (Nike, Adidas or Under Armour), plus there would likely be a TV package too from either Fox or ESPN. Would easily offset the added expense for these programs.

Then allow them to recruit like how IMG already does without seemingly any restrictions.

Thoughts?



SK80
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby SK80 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:09 am

Hey if it brings in money for the schools why not... all of the above could be true just a matter of if that is what these schools want high school football to be. If you believe in a natural progression than all this is likely in some degree or form.
Last edited by SK80 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:41 am

Won't happen...too much dirt to move...more likely elite teams will stay inbounds and simply attract talent thru success and by offering a college type experience that will prepare athletes for the next level...

Some Publics may be able to self fund thru fund raising and selling pancakes etc. but for most simply not feasible and politically the curling team will not be able to do the same and politicians will mandate that every team have a national program...and no sponsor will be able to make those numbers work...

Daforno
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Daforno » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:00 am

Why all of a sudden do we need super leagues??

Could it have anything to do with the fact that MD has taken it to a new level and rolled everyone?

Where was all the outrage when MV with it's world renowned AG program was winning with all those farmers?
Where was the outrage when Servite had their nice little run with the Corona connection ( 91 freeway express )?
Where was the outrage when Bosco recruited every kid outside of Bellflower?

Is the hate for MD so deep that now because they do it better than everyone else it has NOW become a problem?

Regarding Money privately coaching JT, PLEASE take a look around I see kids getting private instruction everywhere, what about that Steve Clarkson guy coaching every kid who can throw a ball 10 yards or more
My neighbor's son is a kicker, and he goes every Saturday to Sherman Oaks to kick with Chris Sailor ( UCLA All American kicker )
Then 2 camps per year in Vegas during the NCAA period where contact is allowed.
The REAL catalyst for all of this is dear old MOM AND DAD!
They keep the kid back a year, they pay for the private lessons, they transfer the kid and they AGREE to EVERYTHING!!!
The schools just happen to be the very happy recipient of the parents dreams of glory.

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:55 am

Daforno wrote:Source of the post Where was all the outrage when MV with it's world renowned AG program was winning with all those farmers?Where was the outrage when Servite had their nice little run with the Corona connection ( 91 freeway express )?Where was the outrage when Bosco recruited every kid outside of Bellflower?


Where were you? Their was plenty of outrage, newbie? Also the Ag program was a vehicle but hardly world renowned and the draw was local...more Bando's used it than athletes...

Servite got a few, SM had a good run but they were not beating teams by 35-50 points as opposed to 1-6 points historically...Today is a little different, athletes are far better prepared and trained as the science of sports conditioning and training has advanced tremendously.

So...the gossip at the neighborhood Tupperware party is not really applicable or accurate in today's paradigm.

There is merit to the original post and the questions are valid, but I think a more organic pattern will emerge and natural selection will establish the programs that are suited to compete and re-leaguing to some extent and where possible will be the most likely outcome.

Daforno wrote:Source of the post My neighbor's son is a kicker, and he goes every Saturday to Sherman Oaks to kick with Chris Sailor ( UCLA All American kicker )Then 2 camps per year in Vegas during the NCAA period where contact is allowed.The REAL catalyst for all of this is dear old MOM AND DAD!They keep the kid back a year, they pay for the private lessons, they transfer the kid and they AGREE to EVERYTHING!!!


Agree with this in part as parents do facilitate the movement but are not causal...

17 belonged to MD I expect SJB to be the top dawg to begin the season in 18 with MD proving up and JSerra will just be rattling cages the whole year...Not sure CC will be as dominant as they have been in the past but still very good and capable...and MD will always be in the hunt as they have laid the foundation on which to build a very strong program for years to come...

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Professor Fate
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:24 pm

BBB wrote:Source of the post
You’d have Bosco, MD, IMG, Bishop Gorman, De La Salle, De Matha, Corona Centennial, Allen (Texas), Miami Central, etc. You could even create regional leagues and progress into a true national championship playoff.

Amen!

Playthegame wrote:Source of the post There is merit to the original post and the questions are valid, but I think a more organic pattern will emerge and natural selection will establish the programs that are suited to compete and re-leaguing to some extent and where possible will be the most likely outcome.

Re-leaguing is an acceptable alternative, or at least a step towards a solution.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

Daforno
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Daforno » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:10 pm

That was my feeble attempt at sarcasm, of course the Ag program was NOT world renown it was ONLY known with in the district and the Johnson boys to their credit rode it to victories over Capo Valley and El Toro and occasionally MD

Funny that The Johnson Boys are history now that dad retired after getting eaten up in the playoffs!
My point was that they never took the heat for all the kids that should of played else where but didn't.

The tooth paste is out of the tube, and the privates are taking who they want, I'd be interested to see where the ex Bosco guy is going to get his kids, POLY is a long commute to MV.

MDDad
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby MDDad » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:28 pm

BBB, this is an interesting topic for discussion. Thanks for starting it.

BBB wrote:My question is why not fully embrace it and push it even further, like a Bishop Gorman or IMG does, and simply structure your program essentially like a prep school and play a national schedule against top ranked teams like these other programs do?

IMG and Bishop Gorman have entirely different financial situations than the rest of the schools you mention. IMG has a large number of "students" paying $75,000 a year for tuition, room and board, and it also has multiple other sources of revenue into the academy. That goes a long way towards financing a football team that has to travel extensively. The Bishop Gorman football program for years was receiving a $1 million annual grant from the UFC's Fertitta brothers and three casino owners. None of the other schools you listed have anything close to that kind of backing.

You’d have Bosco, MD, IMG, Bishop Gorman, De La Salle, De Matha, Corona Centennial, Allen (Texas), Miami Central, etc. You could even create regional leagues and progress into a true national championship playoff.

See my comments above. Only IMG and Bishop Gorman could possibly meet the financial challenges of that kind of schedule.

I’m pretty confident you could get a major apparel company to sponsor it (Nike, Adidas or Under Armour), plus there would likely be a TV package too from either Fox or ESPN. Would easily offset the added expense for these programs.

I have to wonder where your confidence comes from that apparel companies are chomping at the bit to finance such a system. And if you think a TV package would "easily offset the added expenses" I'd like to see the cost analysis that leads you to that conclusion.

The concept is intriguing, and I'm sure it would make some of the complainers here happy. But the travel costs alone make the idea prohibitive. And finances aside, the academic losses are even worse. Mater Dei's players missed only one day of school (Friday) for their trips to Sunnyvale and Sacramento this year. But there are other schools who left for cross-country games on Tuesday and their kids missed four days of school for each trip. That may not be a burden for a sports academy like IMG that only peripherally pretends to be a high school, but for real schools that's much too heavy of an academic loss for students to make up.

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Daforno wrote:Source of the post the Johnson boys to their credit rode it to victories over Capo Valley and El Toro and occasionally MD


Is this sarcasm too? The record reflects 6-3 MV Perhaps it is reverse sarcasm?

Gotta go Avon calling...

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:41 pm

Daforno wrote:Source of the post My point was that they never took the heat for all the kids that should of played else where but didn't.


#DumbandDumber #SpongeBob

Daforno
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Daforno » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:48 pm

Check again ALL TIME head to head

MD is 10-7 against MV

FBOC
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby FBOC » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:28 pm

Daforno wrote:Why all of a sudden do we need super leagues??

Could it have anything to do with the fact that MD has taken it to a new level and rolled everyone?

Where was all the outrage when MV with it's world renowned AG program was winning with all those farmers?
Where was the outrage when Servite had their nice little run with the Corona connection ( 91 freeway express )?
Where was the outrage when Bosco recruited every kid outside of Bellflower?

Is the hate for MD so deep that now because they do it better than everyone else it has NOW become a problem?

Regarding Money privately coaching JT, PLEASE take a look around I see kids getting private instruction everywhere, what about that Steve Clarkson guy coaching every kid who can throw a ball 10 yards or more
My neighbor's son is a kicker, and he goes every Saturday to Sherman Oaks to kick with Chris Sailor ( UCLA All American kicker )
Then 2 camps per year in Vegas during the NCAA period where contact is allowed.
The REAL catalyst for all of this is dear old MOM AND DAD!
They keep the kid back a year, they pay for the private lessons, they transfer the kid and they AGREE to EVERYTHING!!!
The schools just happen to be the very happy recipient of the parents dreams of glory.


Please tell when mv had 24 players that signed D1 scholarship's or already had offers on a single team. Last years team would have beat the 2004 team or any other team MV had during the "farm days". You would have to go back 6 or 7 years of MV football to get the 24 scholarship's MD had on last year's roster. Even the 2004 team never beat nationally ranked teams by 4 plus touchdowns.

BBB
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby BBB » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:06 pm

MDDad wrote:...the academic losses are even worse. Mater Dei's players missed only one day of school (Friday) for their trips to Sunnyvale and Sacramento this year. But there are other schools who left for cross-country games on Tuesday and their kids missed four days of school for each trip. That may not be a burden for a sports academy like IMG that only peripherally pretends to be a high school, but for real schools that's much too heavy of an academic loss for students to make up.

How often, for how long and on what days does the MD basketball team travel? I recall plenty of trips, many back East.

Also, didn’t Bosco travel back East twice last year? I get it, Bosco is not the most rigorous academic institution around. But if they can figure it out, others could too. Even DeLaSalle travels out of state.

Granted if you did it regionally you could pull it off more easily. Would love to see it happen.

broman
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby broman » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:24 pm

Sign of the Times?

In the middle of the high school basketball and soccer playoffs, I just have to tell you about this startling agreement reached by the Gold Coast League for the 2018 football season: Chatsworth Sierra Canyon and Lancaster Paraclete are guaranteed the league's two automatic playoff spots regardless of their record.

The other four league schools that play 11-man football — Brentwood, Calabasas Viewpoint, Lancaster McAuliffe and North Hollywood Campbell Hall — in return won't be required to play Sierra Canyon or Paraclete. They will compete for third place.

Asked if the Southern Section would intervene, Southern Section spokesman Thom Simmons said: "We can't do something that is not in our power, according to the bylaws."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/highschoo ... story.html

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:07 pm

Daforno wrote:Source of the post Check again ALL TIME head to headMD is 10-7 against MV


No...you check again, in the Johnson era, the one you said was AMAZING and when all the transfers occurred and MV occasionally beat MD... it is 6-3...MV...Nu-B...
Last edited by Playthegame on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:19 pm

broman wrote:Source of the post I just have to tell you about this startling agreement reached by the Gold Coast League for the 2018 football season:


See free agency thread and post by Professor Fate...

Daforno
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Daforno » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:32 pm

On the MD website, MD has their record for EVERY year, and they also have listed the head to head record for everyone they have played

Scroll down to MV and it shows MD 10-7 against MV can you direct us to your source please?

For God's sake MD beat MV every year from 1992- 1998 that alone is 7 victories!!!

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:43 pm

Stick to Tupperware parties and ladies talk Daforno...you quickly forget the context of your own posts...Bob Johnson did not coach at MV nor was there a transfer rep associated with MV during this period.

6-3 Nu B and MD is not the center of the football universe...look at the record post 98. You esteem yourself and your program more highly then you ought...pump the breaks on your arrogance and maybe you will get more favorable responses to your catty comments...#meangirls

Daforno
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Daforno » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:59 pm

Wanabe tough guys like you always go to the girl talk and try to dismiss the other party because you can't win with facts, MD prints out their record for all to see 10-7 against MV, can you tell me where I can find where I'm wrong?
And it was only going to get worse "if" they meet again, but I don't see them playing do you?
MV wanted out of the open division didn't they?
Didn't Johnson cry like a stuck pig when he had to play the big boys?

Playthegame
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Re: Elite Football Teams Face an Interesting Dilemma

Postby Playthegame » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:35 am

Pretty sure we're on for game 5 this year, no open division in the Sothern Section, as far as the girl talk goes that is just what you do...you are the one attacking everyone not MD, just pump your breaks...chill out...let your team do it on the field, truly they do not need you to regulate for the Monarchs. They are very capable and let's be real for a second or two...when you call out MV and Johnson and transfers and claim no one made a stink, when everyone who was playing or watching at the time made regular posts about SpongeBob...that is why they called him SpongeBob, just sounds erratic like Aunt Flo is visiting or something.

Your stuff is not factual, you can't even keep up with your own comments...you go all catty girl mode on everyone not getting heat for transfers and then make a big deal out of period of time when the team you trying bash didn't even have transfers.

Trust me sister there are a lot of folks on this board that actually do have knowledge...

MD is a great program...be gracious and enjoy the ride, Jesus did not defend himself before Pilate, you don't need to defend the Monarchs before the Southern Section...you guys are good! Is what it is...

Under SpongeBob Johnson you guys went 3 for 6...FACT

#welcometothenewage

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