As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decrease

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Brooke
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Brooke »

What are you talking about Parrotpaul? Pew arguing about what?
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Parrotpaul
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Parrotpaul »

You need to read the story Trog posted....it's all in there.

Who else do American workers compete against for jobs in the United States other than foreign workers?

According to the latest data on employment jobs are increasing by a significant degree. This morning's BLS jobs report certainly doesn't portend doom and gloom. What say ye?

Employment Situation Summary

Transmission of material in this release is embargoed until USDL-15-0838
8:30 a.m. (EDT) Friday, May 8, 2015

Technical information:
Household data: (202) 691-6378 * cpsinfo@bls.gov * http://www.bls.gov/cps
Establishment data: (202) 691-6555 * cesinfo@bls.gov * http://www.bls.gov/ces

Media contact: (202) 691-5902 * PressOffice@bls.gov


THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- APRIL 2015


Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 223,000 in April, and the
unemployment rate was essentially unchanged at 5.4 percent, the U.S. Bureau
of Labor Statistics reported today. Job gains occurred in professional and
business services, health care, and construction. Mining employment
continued to decline.

Household Survey Data

In April, both the unemployment rate (5.4 percent) and the number of
unemployed persons (8.5 million) were essentially unchanged. Over the
year, the unemployment rate and the number of unemployed persons were down
by 0.8 percentage point and 1.1 million, respectively. (See table A-1.)

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rate for Asians increased
to 4.4 percent. The rates for adult men (5.0 percent), adult women (4.9
percent), teenagers (17.1 percent), whites (4.7 percent), blacks (9.6
percent), and Hispanics (6.9 percent) showed little or no change in April.
(See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

The number of persons unemployed for less than 5 weeks increased by 241,000
to 2.7 million in April. The number of long-term unemployed (those
jobless for 27 weeks or more) changed little at 2.5 million, accounting
for 29.0 percent of the unemployed. Over the past 12 months, the number
of long-term unemployed has decreased by 888,000. (See table A-12.)

In April, the civilian labor force participation rate (62.8 percent)
changed little. Since April 2014, the participation rate has remained
within a narrow range of 62.7 percent to 62.9 percent. The employment-
population ratio held at 59.3 percent in April and has been at this level
since January. (See table A-1.)


<snip>

http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatcht ... ighlight_1
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Parrotpaul
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Parrotpaul »

Bev...I posted the exceprt once, and you even responded to it....here it is again:

The report suggests two possibilities as to why Mexican immigrants are not sending as much money back home as they used to.

One is the housing market crash of 2008, which had a direct impact on the number of Mexican migrants who could find work in construction. The second is the record number of deportations during President Barack Obama’s administration.
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by MDDad »

Brooke wrote:showing how incomes have decreased AS the number of foreigners in the USA increase
Your statement is correct, Brooke, but the operative word is "as". Incomes have also decreased as your number of posts has increased, and as the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased, and as the number of Super Bowls won by the New England Patriots has increased. Without providing evidence of causation (i.e. "showing how incomes have decreased BECAUSE the number of foreigners in the USA has increased"), there is no purpose to the study.

The fact that the study also failed to measure what has happened to non-foreign incomes during the study period is another oversight that makes it useless, except to agitate certain segments of our population. During my time as an executive, I would never have accepted a study like this from one of my subordinates.
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Brooke
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Brooke »

Where is the link Parrotpaul? Where is it from?
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Parrotpaul »

Scroll back...it's in a post Trog made.
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Brooke »

Obama: Deportation Numbers 'Actually a Little Deceptive'
October/2011

According to President Obama, the allegedly record-breaking deportation numbers released this week by ICE Director John Morton are "a little deceptive." I agree. They give the impression that this administration is enforcing the law more than, say, the previous administration. But other ICE numbers suggest that immigration enforcement is declining, not increasing.

Speaking about the year-end deportation figures to a group of Hispanic reporters in late September, the President said:
The statistics are actually a little deceptive because what we've been doing is, with the stronger border enforcement, we've been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as a deportation, even though they may have only been held for a day or 48 hours, sent back – that's counted as a deportation.
This book-cooking was reported last year too. As the president said, one way that DHS pumps its numbers is to count those caught at the border and returned quickly. I don't have a problem with that, if these aliens are actually processed as a removal, and as long as the agency provides a breakdown of the numbers so that anyone can see the various types of enforcement that are being counted. But DHS and ICE public affairs personnel do not make that available; nor do they provide any breakdown of how the aliens were identified (e.g. Secure Communities vs. worksite – oh wait, I forgot, there are no more worksite operations), or which type of removal tool was used, i.e. expedited removal, voluntary departure or return, stipulated removal, etc.
http://cis.org/vaughan/actually-a-little-deceptive
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by Brooke »

MDDad: Incomes have also decreased as your number of posts has increased, and as the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased, and as the number of Super Bowls won by the New England Patriots has increased.MDDad,
Come on MDDad, let's not play silly games of the left. None of the above are relative to incomes in any way.

We really don't have to pretend that we all just waddled out of a hospital nursery ward do we? We all share some common knowledge, certainly enough not to be surprised by the results of the study.

I will ask you again. Who do American workers compete with for American jobs? There are millions of immigrants in this country, both legal and illegal. Supposedly temporary guest workers are allowed in by the hundreds of thousands to take American jobs at lower pay. How is that good for our country and its citizens? Especially in light of the fact that these programs allow extensions for foreigners to stay - and don't forget about bestowing American citizenship upon their babies. How smart is that for eliminating the importance of your own status in your own country.

How many American jobs have been outsourced overseas?

All Americans should know that immigration affects us all in all kinds of ways. That is no secret.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Brooke
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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MDDad: Without providing evidence of causation (i.e. "showing how incomes have decreased BECAUSE the number of foreigners in the USA has increased"), there is no purpose to the study.
I wish it did, but it is still a valuable study. Many Americans believe that the U.S. benefits from a constant stream of immigrants. Big business lobbyists broadcast that lie at every opportunity.

We can use commonly known facts to come to our own conclusions. Foreigners who come here on guest worker programs are usually paid less than the Americans they replace. Big business spent years trying to convince Americans that they were just too dumb and uneducated to handle the jobs available in the U.S. That has now been proven a lie. How about that? More corruption at work to enrich lying employers while workers cannot make any gains in their lifestyles.

We also know that illegal aliens are at the bottom of the wage barrel. The more illegals the lower wages will get, which affects not only other illegals, but poor American citizens and their children.

We know that good American jobs have been outsourced overseas to the detriment of our society. Thanks to the greed of corporations.
MDDad: The fact that the study also failed to measure what has happened to non-foreign incomes during the study period is another oversight that makes it useless, except to agitate certain segments of our population.
I wish it had, but it didn't.

There is nothing wrong with letting the ignorant and naive in our society know what is really happening regarding incomes in this country. Perhaps citizens will wake up and demand changes from our representatives in Washington and at the state level. Which is the only way that individuals can affect change.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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We know that good American jobs have been outsourced overseas to the detriment of our society. Thanks to the greed of corporations

So you contend the private sector is greedy, and that their job outsourcing to overseas organizations is detrimental to our country. Why is cutting overhead greedy? Investors would argue with you? Perhaps we should enact a fifteen year moratorium on advancement in technology, so fewer and fewer jobs are reduced by entrepreneurial companies creating devices that displace workers. In addition we could make it illegal for American companies to use anything but American labor. That would cut out any outsourcing and keep all that money here. Do you see any problems with our government doing that, or are you cool with our government doing that?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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I was under the distinct impression that our country was governed by a system whereby citizens elected people to represent their best interests and that of the country.

That is not happening anymore. What sense does it make to elect representatives that put foreigners first? Including the president? You fully approve of the president's amnesty plans to give amnesty to millions of illegal foreign criminals who break U.S. laws. Why?

We should penalize corporations who outsource American jobs overseas via taxes.

Do you agree that companies on American soil should have the right of replacing hundreds of their employees with foreigners? If you do why?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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Do you agree that companies on American soil should have the right of replacing hundreds of their employees with foreigners? If you do why?

I do. These are private companies in the Mecca of capitalism. As long as the people they employ are legal and legitimate, a company can hire whoever it pleases...it can also fire them without a reason...unless they are contracted employees.

Foreign workers are willing to work for much less than American workers. Who would you hire if both employees turn out the same level of production? Why?

Americans want more wages and benefits than do their foreign counterparts, but if the skills levels are the same and each person produces a like amount, why pay what you don't have to...companies aren't created as social services organizations...they are formed to sell a service or a product and make money....hopefully, lots of money.
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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How does your view mesh with these companies sitting U.S. soil? How about addressing our system of government? We elect people to represent us; not to lower our quality of life.

It's too bad you weren't adventurous to spread your wings and try to find a job as a teacher in a foreign country. In Japan executives are paid mucho money and American teachers are at the bottom of the heap. Living in old moldy apartments and not able to even afford to own a vehicle. A principal of the kindergarten was hired for the Tokyo American school. His wife was so horrified she was yelling at everyone and almost divorced her husband she was so pissed off.

Then you could have experienced what you wish for Americans first hand. You would have recognized instantly that the United States is unlike any other country. Have you ever been out of the United States?
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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Parrotpaul: Americans want more wages and benefits than do their foreign counterparts, but if the skills levels are the same and each person produces a like amount, why pay what you don't have to...companies aren't created as social services organizations...they are formed to sell a service or a product and make money....hopefully, lots of money.
I cannot help but find your view humorous considering your penchant for running away. It's for certain you wouldn't have the courage to step into a boardroom to explain any ideas you might have. You apparently have never had to keep your word and hold yourself accountable for your actions.

Companies that do make lots of money, should share it with their better employees in the form of bonuses. If the company does well so should the employees.

I would not mind paying good employees what they are worth. It goes a long way to generating loyalty and has nothing to do with being a social service organization.
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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There are a couple of huge holes in the government's figures on both deportees and employment numbers.

First, as in the case of too many deportation hearings. A bunch are ordered deported, but given a return date to be deported. Most never show up for the scheduled bus ride. but are still counted as deported..

In the "employed" numbers, if a person "earns" $1200 in any 3 month period they are counted as employed. (who could live on that??) Most teen age baby sitters or paper route delivery people would make that. Someone who takes a temporary job and is laid off a few weeks later is counted as employed for that whole quarter. People who are working way below their skill and training level and working only part time are counted as employed. If people go to school, or take courses to improve their chances for a better job, or to keep the one they have they are counted as no longer looking for work and taken off the unemployed roles.. Still, under those criteria 8.5Million people counted as unemployed is a national tragedy. Ain't numbers fun?? :puke:

The facts are that people are taking home less money, getting taxed more (SCOTUS Obamacare is a tax), and have less spending power (higer prices) than before..
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

Post by John Q. Public »

Correction:The Supreme Court ruled that the penalty for not getting insurance is a tax, not Obamacare. We can only wish that we could join the rest of the civilized world and have our taxes pay for our medical care.

And the fact that people are making less money isn't the government's fault, except in the case of government employees. You'll have to talk to private industry on that one.
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Brooke
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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Not true in Canada John, the money for health insurance is taken straight out your paycheck, a fairly big chunk of your wages at that. It's not free at all.

I also disagree with your statement that Americans are making less money as no fault of the government. It absolutely is because of immigration policies. Which has to do with how many legal immigrants are allowed to enter the country each year (almost all compete against American workers for jobs). Another huge factor is guest workers, many of whom take American jobs at less pay. And now we can definitely include the president himself because of his blatant and wrong-headed zeal to give illegals amnesty, which encourages more illegals to flood our land.

Trade agreements are also at fault for deals made with guest workers. None of it good for American workers.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Parrotpaul: Perhaps we should enact a fifteen year moratorium on advancement in technology, so fewer and fewer jobs are reduced by entrepreneurial companies creating devices that displace workers. ool with our government doing that?
This is a dull, half-witted argument. Don't waste board space with this kind of stuff. It certainly doesn't enhance your image.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?
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Re: As Foreign-Born U.S. Population Increases, Incomes Decre

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Geez, I thought...at least according to your contentions, my image...whatever that was...went up in smoke years ago. Talk about beating dead horses. You need to get a new rap. :D

NB...I love mixing metaphors...makes it colorful...no?
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Post by John Q. Public »

Brooke wrote:Not true in Canada John, the money for health insurance is taken straight out your paycheck, a fairly big chunk of your wages at that.
What do you mean it's not true? It's exactly what I said.
I also disagree with your statement that Americans are making less money as no fault of the government. It absolutely is because of immigration policies.
There are a whole lot more reasons why Albertsons isn't hiring warehousemen, Mattel isn't hiring administrative assistants and Lawry-Lipton isn't hiring sales reps than immigration policies.

I mentioned Lawry-Lipton because the guy around the corner was a rep for them, bought a nice house, bought two more houses and a motorhome, sent his boys to college, retired well - and his job doesn't even exist now. And it has nothing, whatsoever, to do with immigrants or immigration policy.
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