Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Troglodyte
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Looks like Brooke was on to something..

Post by Troglodyte »

Florida senator asks for probe into visa program
OC REGISTER 06/05/15

ORLANDO, Fla. - Florida Sen. Bill Nelson has asked the Department of Homeland Security to investigate a visa program that Walt Disney World has used to replace its technology workers with foreign ones.
The Orlando Sentinel reported on Disney layoffs in October and in January, noting that some jobs were being outsourced.
The company said Friday in a prepared statement, "Disney has created almost 30,000 new jobs in the U.S. over the past decade, and the recent restructuring of our parks IT team in fact resulted in a larger organization with 70 additional in-house positions and the rehiring of 120 people in the U.S. External support firms are required to comply with all applicable employment laws."
One of the laid-off workers told the Orlando Sentinel on Friday, who requested anonymity because he is trying to find another job and is considering legal action, said he was told he would have to train his replacement if he wanted to get severance benefits. The new employees - several of whom said they had just arrived in the United States - worked for a company called HCL America.

Senators question Southern California Edison's layoffs
OC REGISTER 03/19/15

Southern California Edison recently laid off hundreds of employees, mostly from Irvine, and replaced them with tech workers from India – a move scrutinized Tuesday from Pomona to Washington, D.C.
The IT workers were forced to train their replacements, who were brought in from India on special tech visas.
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afan95
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

Post by afan95 »

These visas are supposed to be granted for jobs that the company cannot find the specialized labor here in the US...not to replace current workers who apparently have been doing just fine all along handling the company's IT needs. Didn't see where Disney or Edison are installing new systems so technically superior to the current systems that the current IT personnel won't be able to perform the job.

And speaking of Disney, did anyone see where they replaced the older members of the Disneyland marching band with new members? They say it's because they are going to be doing different music, etc and the replaced workers will have jobs elsewhere. Sorry but this just stinks of age discrimination to me. Not impressed with Disney very much these days.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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It's all perfectly legal, as long as Disney and Edison handle the employee/contractor relationship properly. They outsourced the work to Indian companies and the Indian companies are perfectly authorized to hire Indian employees. Same situation as Walmart's warehousing operations except Walmart's "independent contractors" and "temps" are American.

How come nobody cares about employers screwing their workers till immigrants are involved?
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Because then you get to blame the immigrants.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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This is from HCL's website:

Fostering economic growth: Companies that are truly global know not only how to sell in global markets but also how to stimulate local economies. HCL’s local hiring strategy is a crucial part of our commitment to the cities and towns in which we operate. Our new Michigan Technology Development Center is looking to fill hundreds of IT positions from among unemployed workers in the city of Jackson. With more than 7,000 employees in 21 offices across 15 states — such as Michigan, North Carolina, New Jersey, Washington, and New York — HCL has been investing significantly in new facilities to generate employment and support our U.S. client base.

Did HCL even interview the current workers to see if they qualify for the job? Of course they qualified for the job they were currently doing. Anyone want to guess that the pay for that job was going to be less than what Edison or Disney was paying them and the only ones willing to take that reduced rate was from India?

You guys crack me up. You cry about Walmart and McDonalds and every other company that is not paying their workers more than minimum wage and how horrible it is that CEOs of companies are making so much money they don't deserve that should be filtered down to their minimum wage workers. You cry about the demise of the middle class. But it's OK for companies to displace current workers in their company with a hired firm that will likely pay their foreign workers less money with the end result being that profits will increase for the company outsourcing their jobs. All because it's legal.

I'm only a couple of years away from very early retirement but if I wasn't I would start a business that provided companies like Walmart and McDonalds with their workers. Then Walmart and McDonald's could get ahead of the minimum wage curve and outrage and say they are going to pay their workers $20/hour. Maybe they would even get invited to the White House because of this grand gesture. Then they could outsource their jobs to my company where I will only pay workers minimum wage (even if it's increased to $15). All perfectly legal, but pretty twisted.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

Post by Parrotpaul »

Start a church when you retire...revenues are staggering.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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JQP wrote: How come nobody cares about employers screwing their workers till immigrants are involved?
The short answer to your question is because they are outsiders - really outsiders. Like from abroad. Another reason is because these these workers are being fired by the hundreds and thousands. Americans are losing their livelihoods and still have the responsibilities they had while they were working. Can you blame them? Can you imagine how frightened they are - what if they can't find a new job or one that pays close to what they need to support themselves and their families?

Another thing, imagine what it would be like to be required to train your replacement or you won't get a severance package? Don't you think that is about as low as it gets?

Besides, it's all lies, foreign workers are not paid as much as the Americans they are replacing. Who is checking? Employers can select any job and deem it equivalent pay. It's an unethical and vile racket that is ruining our country.

What are the circumstances John? Are the new employees paid less than the old workers? Were entire departments replaced or selected individuals?
Last edited by Brooke on Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Kinda funny that HCL can't find local workers for those jobs, but plenty from India...
FTR, the companies hiring from HCL must, by law, pay the prevailing wage and give the same perks as regular employees.. I wonder what they gain by hiring foreign workers..
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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My sister in law works for Disney in the costume design department. She has been there for 15 years. Just last week they laid 220 employees off and moved the operation to Orlando. My sister in law was one of the fortunate 10 who were offered to move with the company. She was given a raise and moving allowances. She tells me her new job is to train "new workers" to do the production jobs.. Could be related.. --:--
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Vilepagan wrote: Because then you get to blame the immigrants.
Come on Vilepagan why don't you take human nature into account when forming your opinions? And, why don't you give Americans credit for having the intelligence to know who is responsible for policies that harm them?

Where is your empathy for your fellow Americans who are losing their jobs to an unfair and unlawful process that is taking place because government officials are not looking to ensure that Americans could not be found to replace the workers who lost their jobs? It is because of greed and lawlessness that this is all taking place and it is responsible for the disappearance of the middle class in the USA.

What is it that drives your animosity for your country and fellow Americans? This is your home, I really don't understand your attitude. Can you explain or rather will you explain please?
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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What is it that drives your animosity for your country and fellow Americans?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

This is your home, I really don't understand your attitude.


Clearly, you do not.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Brooke wrote:What is it that drives your animosity for your country and fellow Americans? This is your home, I really don't understand your attitude. Can you explain or rather will you explain please?
What drives your animosity towards capitalism? The business of America is business and reducing costs is just part of the equation.

As afan pointed out, the folks at the top are flourishing. Yet few if any of the conservatives on this board believe that will have negative consequences.

As the iconic economist Adam Smith (whom conservatives claim to worship but really don't) stated in his landmark treatise on economic theory, The Wealth of Nations;
Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.
Business doesn't care about nations or national sovereignty. It only cares about profits and shareholder equity. And for some of those tasked with running those entities they don't even care about that. They care about their personal enrichment. Even if it means running their companies into the ground. 2008 proved that in real time.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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It isn't my fault the displaced workers made bad life choices. They'll just have to show some initiative and train for new jobs. Rather than complaining, they should seize the opportunity. I'm sure this will create plenty of opportunities for Walmart workers and tandoori chicken flippers.

The business of the American people is business, Brooke. Why don't you want our country to prosper?
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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The problem with too many workers is that once they get the job they quit keeping up with the advances and new techniques in the field. Their expertise is soon obsolete. Especially in fast evolving careers like IT.
Unless they really become interested in what's on the horizon they get left behind and the company looks for newer blood.

As for the rest of this thread. It isn't corporate greed that causes all the problems. Kinda hard to keep up the profit margin when taxes, regulations, and new legislatives giveaways cut into the bottom line. In order to keep those profits coming, or get priced out of the marketplace, the companies have to cut somewhere.
The first law of business is to stay in business.. It is only the second law that says to make a profit.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Troglodyte wrote:As for the rest of this thread. It isn't corporate greed that causes all the problems. Kinda hard to keep up the profit margin when taxes, regulations, and new legislatives giveaways cut into the bottom line. In order to keep those profits coming, or get priced out of the marketplace, the companies have to cut somewhere.
The first law of business is to stay in business.. It is only the second law that says to make a profit.
Your remark would be valid were it not for the fact that corporate entities are sitting on both record profits and cash.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

Post by afan95 »

JQP,
A bad life choice is getting pregnant when you're 16 or robbing a bank or killing someone. A bad life choice isn't training for a job in IT maybe 10 years ago because technology was the place to be.
It would be one thing if they were judged to be unable to do the job that is being contracted out. Obviously not the case since they are training their replacements.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Vilepagan wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about.
I think you do. But, I will spell it out for you. There have been cases where American workers have been told on Friday afternoons that they no longer have jobs and that Monday morning their Indian or Chinese replacements will come in and they must train them in order to get severance packages.

From what I have observed of your personality on this board, I can practically guarantee that you would be very angry. Especially if you knew that your replacement that you were required to train was going to be paid considerably less than you were.

I have read articles for years now that this strategy is part of a loose plan by big business and the government to put American workers on par with third world workers. I don't know if it's true or not, but so far it seems to be progressing in that direction.

What is your concept of what a country is and how it should benefit its citizens? Especially our country the USA considering we elect our representatives to look after our best interests and that of our country and its future. You seem to be on the side of many of our elected reps who see their jobs as looking after foreigners to the detriment of their constituents, which makes no sense to me. Is that true?
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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JQP wrote: The business of the American people is business, Brooke. Why don't you want our country to prosper?
I do want my country to prosper, but I do not agree with the idea that our elected representatives are in cahoots with big business lobbyists to the point of being traitors to their own constituents, the people they represent. Which is what is happening now.

I don't think our country is prospering when millions of American workers have been replaced by cheap foreign workers and CEO's make 300 times more than their poorly paid workers.

Our country became great because workers were paid good salaries and companies grew and thrived as well. What is happening now goes against our very system. And what is happening now are the lies that have been released to a gullible public by lobbyists and that are endlessly repeated by politicians.

This country isn't prospering by firing good workers who must go on unemployment and perhaps eventually welfare if they cannot find jobs.
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Wabash wrote: What drives your animosity towards capitalism? The business of America is business and reducing costs is just part of the equation.
I don't have an animosity towards capitalism? What a dumb question.

I dislike replacing American workers with cheap foreign labor and so should all Americans. Why don't you?
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Re: Looks like Brooke was on to something..

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Brooke wrote: I don't have an animosity towards capitalism? What a dumb question.

I dislike replacing American workers with cheap foreign labor and so should all Americans. Why don't you?
Obviously you do animosity towards American capitalism. Because outsourcing Americans for foreign cheaper labor is the new normal.
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