Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

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Professor Fate
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:13 am

Supreme Court strengthens government's power to jail immigrants who face deportation
The Supreme Court on Tuesday strengthened the Trump administration's power to hold immigrants in jail for months or years as they fight deportation, ruling federal law gives these detainees no right to a bail hearing nor a chance to go free.

In the 5-3 decision, the court's majority found that federal law says immigrants who face deportation "shall be detained" while their cases are being considered. The court's conservatives rejected the view of federal judges in California who said detained immigrants have a right to a bail hearing after six months in jail.

...Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., speaking for the high court, said the federal immigration law does not call for bail hearings, and the 9th Circuit had no authority to order them.
However, the justices did not rule on whether the Constitution gives detained immigrants a right to a hearing, and it sent the case back to California for that issue to be decided.
Justice Stephen Breyer read his dissent in court and said the ruling would affect thousands of people in jail "who believe they have a right to enter or remain in the United States. … This court, I think for first time ever, reads a statute as permitting long-term confinement of a 'person' in the United States without an opportunity to obtain bail."
As he noted, the Constitution says no person "shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law," and the word "person" has been understood to include non-citizens and immigrants who are here illegally.

Or does it?

...Richard Samp, counsel for the Washington Legal Foundation, called the decision "a victory for the rule of law. When Congress determines that the best way to prevent aliens convicted of felonies from repeating their crimes is to lock them up until they can be deported, lower courts don't have the authority to second-guess that determination by attempting to re-write the law."
Joining Alito in the majority were Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., Gorsuch and Justices Anthony M. Kennedy and Clarence Thomas.
The dissenters included Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor. Justice Elena Kagan sat out the case, possibly because she worked in the Justice Department when the case was first appealed.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html
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John Q. Public
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 am

So apparently the 5th Amendment doesn't apply to visitors. Scary precedent.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:22 am

Professor Fate wrote:QR_BBPOST However, the justices did not rule on whether the Constitution gives detained immigrants a right to a hearing, and it sent the case back to California for that issue to be decided.
When that case is decided expect the SC to rule that a hearing is required if the CA court rules differently.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:23 am

Professor Fate wrote:QR_BBPOST The Supreme Court on Tuesday strengthened the Trump administration's power to hold immigrants in jail for months or years as they fight deportation, ruling federal law gives these detainees no right to a bail hearing nor a chance to go free.
Do you agree or disagree with this ruling?
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Omar Bongo » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:18 am

Trump's 2020 slogan - "Two chickens in every pot and a Guantanamo in every state"
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:01 pm

Vilepagan wrote:QR_BBPOST Do you agree or disagree with this ruling?
Of course I agree with the ruling. They're here illegally, so what sense does it make to let them roam free in the country they don't belong in, in the first place? I'm sure they are free to return to their country while they await the results of any hearing.

BTW, bail can be withheld even for citizens, if they are deemed a flight risk, and illegal aliens definitely are flight risks, and would undoubtedly disappear back into our country.

And I have never believed that the protections of the US Constitution were ever meant for any undocumented aliens.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:27 pm

The ruling applies to ALL aliens - green card holders, visa holders, tourists and car wash personnel, alike - held for any reason. Even Don's in-laws.

And they aren't free to return to their own country if they have charges pending. Which would be why they're being held with no hope for bail.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:37 pm

If they are green card or visa holders, the ruling shouldn't apply to them, and if it does, then I disagree with the ruling.

I'm quite sure you are mistaken about the second part of your post. All they have to do is stop contesting their deportation, and they are free to go home.

I don't believe this ruling applies to people awaiting charges of committing other crimes in the US. Just to those disputing their deportations. If they are also charged with ricocheting a bullet into a girl's head, they will get their hearing in a timely manner, but no bail.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:51 pm

Professor Fate wrote:QR_BBPOST And I have never believed that the protections of the US Constitution were ever meant for any undocumented aliens.
Well, the SC disagrees with you there and has many times. Who do you believe the protections were "meant for" and by who?
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:11 pm

American citizens and non-citizens who are here legally. Founding fathers.

As far as I'm concerned, the only rights illegals have here, is the right not to have a crime committed against them.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:31 pm

Professor Fate wrote:If they are green card or visa holders, the ruling shouldn't apply to them, and if it does, then I disagree with the ruling.
Welp. Looks like you disagree. The guy who brought the suit is a green card holder.

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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:17 pm

What did he do to get deported? If he violated the terms of his green card, then that makes him illegal if he won't leave.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:28 pm

I think his was joyriding and a "minor" drug offense of some kind, I think 20 years ago.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:17 pm

Okay, so obviously he's already had his trial for that, and he was convicted. He should have been deported 20 years ago, no?
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:48 pm

His deportation was dropped. Here's the background story from the only place I could find it. But it's pretty straight forward.
Rodriguez was a year old when he arrived in the United States. Twenty-four years later, he landed in immigration detention. In between, he’d become a permanent legal resident, a dental assistant, and a father.

But after being convicted for “joyriding” in 1998 and drug possession five years later, the Department of Homeland Security detained him in 2004. He went on to spend three years in immigration detention. As Mother Jones reported:

US Immigration and Customs Enforcement declined to release [Rodriguez] under supervision at four separate custody reviews. But about a month after Rodriguez filed the suit, the government let him go and used his release to argue (unsuccessfully) that the class certification was moot.

More than seven years after he was detained, Rodriguez received a cancellation of removal that allowed him to remain in the country.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... -hearings/
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:10 pm

Vilepagan wrote:QR_BBPOST When that case is decided expect the SC to rule that a hearing is required if the CA court rules differently.
If I read it right, that would be a deportation hearing, challenging the deportation order, but not a bail hearing.

Either way, both sides should support Trump's plan to hire more deportation judges.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Vilepagan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:59 am

Professor Fate wrote:QR_BBPOST American citizens and non-citizens who are here legally. Founding fathers.
I see. I have no idea what you meant by mentioning the 'founding fathers".
As far as I'm concerned, the only rights illegals have here, is the right not to have a crime committed against them.
When a crime is committed against an illegal immigrant how would that be addressed absent any due process rights on the part of the accuser?

I don't think you've really thought this through.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:50 am

Vilepagan wrote:QR_BBPOST by Vilepagan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:59 am

I see. I have no idea what you meant by mentioning the 'founding fathers".

When a crime is committed against an illegal immigrant how would that be addressed absent any due process rights on the part of the accuser?
You have no idea? Re-read your own question, to which I was replying.

If an illegal gets curb stomped by Billy Bob, Billy Bob goes to jail, the illegal gets patched up, and then deported.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:55 am

Vilepagan wrote:QR_BBPOST Well, the SC disagrees with you there and has many times.
Looks like they agreed with me here.
Professor Fate wrote:QR_BBPOST In the 5-3 decision, the court's majority found that federal law says immigrants who face deportation "shall be detained" while their cases are being considered. The court's conservatives rejected the view of federal judges in California who said detained immigrants have a right to a bail hearing after six months in jail.

...Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., speaking for the high court, said the federal immigration law does not call for bail hearings, and the 9th Circuit had no authority to order them.
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Re: Yet Another Trump Win in the SCOTUS

Post by Vilepagan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:55 pm

Professor Fate wrote:QR_BBPOST If an illegal gets curb stomped by Billy Bob, Billy Bob goes to jail, the illegal gets patched up, and then deported.
Because you say so or because the law says that's what has to happen?

Billy Bob has a right to face his accusers and to cross examine any witnesses against him so the "illegal" in this case would have to remain in this country until after the trial. Presumably you'd want to lock him up so he's not just wandering around loose since he's here illegally and all. That might have an effect on his desire to testify so you'd probably just end up having to let ol' Billy Bob out to beat up another "illegal".

I'm curious, do you think your views on "illegals" arise mostly from your conservatism, republicanism, or christianity?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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