Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18130
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:15 pm

Also, understanding that there are things that you don't know is important as well.

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSZ9E9143cw[/bbvideo]
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
Vilepagan
Posts: 12485
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:52 pm

Bick wrote:QR_BBPOST You would need to be objective, Vile. Not in the camp of trying to prove 24/7 the president has done nothing but bad.

Doesn't apply to you. Carry on.
Nice insult, but you didn't answer the question...can you?

Why would I give credit to the president, any president, because some guy hired me to fix his roof, or drive a truck, or whatever?

What the @#$% did the president have to do with it?

Please tell me you're not so ignorant as to believe the pundits when they claim that "the trump administration created x number of jobs" last month...

Given the recent stock market volatility how can you be sure the jobs weren't created in spite of whatever policies he enacted.

BTW, being "objective" doesn't mean I have to agree with you.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

Bick
Posts: 5003
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:01 pm

Thought you were being facetious.

Hiring takes place when business owners are facing a climate of increased sustainable profitability. Lowering the corporate tax rate does that, as opposed to a one-off stimulus. Those same owners choose to preserve their capital, or put it to work by hiring workers for the increase in anticipated demand of their goods and services.

Trump lowered the corporate tax rates.

User avatar
Vilepagan
Posts: 12485
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Bick wrote:QR_BBPOST Trump lowered the corporate tax rates.
Yes he did. Can you tell me how this would lead to increased demand for goods and services across the entire economy?

I can understand why a decrease in corporate taxes would cause a company to hire more workers if their primary customers are other companies who also received a similar tax break, but I don't see how giving McDonald's a break on their taxes will cause people to eat more burgers.

In short, I don't think trump's tax cut had the effect he'd like you to believe.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:26 pm

Bick wrote:My original point was neither Trump nor Obama had nearly the experience of the prior presidents since Eisenhower
Sorry, but every time you try to equate those two in any way, I have to chuckle

You keep pointing to his state senate experience as some key feather in his cap

Nope. My only point was and is he had almost 12 years of political office-holder experience at both the state and federal level while Trump had zero.

How well electing someone with that lack of experience and knowledge has served us.
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:29 pm

Bick wrote:If you were a recipient of one of the 300k+ jobs that were created last month on his watch, you might be a little less critical.
You mean the jobs that he created, don't you?

The sun has risen every day "on his watch" as well

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:33 pm

Bick wrote:QR_BBPOST You would need to be objective, Vile. Not in the camp of trying to prove 24/7 the president has done nothing but bad. Doesn't apply to you. Carry on.
Translation..."I HAVE NO POINT. Just let me spout off unverifiable garbage like it's fact."
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:37 pm

Bick wrote:You and the mice in your pocket?
Not "the mice", should be "that dead mouse". One of my favorite novels

Bick
Posts: 5003
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Vilepagan wrote:QR_BBPOST Yes he did. Can you tell me how this would lead to increased demand for goods and services across the entire economy?

I can understand why a decrease in corporate taxes would cause a company to hire more workers if their primary customers are other companies who also received a similar tax break, but I don't see how giving McDonald's a break on their taxes will cause people to eat more burgers.

In short, I don't think trump's tax cut had the effect he'd like you to believe.
Assuming you want a serious answer...

Company A now has extra capital from the reduced tax rate, and wants to expand / upgrade facility to add another income channel, and places order for equipment. Company B who assembles the equipment, has excess demand for his current staffing level, and hires another employee. Then places an order for the parts from Company C. Company C needs to manufacture parts, but is also at capacity for employment level, and has to hire another person.

Ongoing lower tax rates you can count on for long range planning that would include increasing your physical and labor capacity. A 1 year windfall is nothing you can count on the following year. No business will commit to 5-7 year assets, or take on additional labor on a single year windfall. It's why the stimulus package failed.

Why do you think a business owner would hire anyone?

Bick
Posts: 5003
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:33 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:QR_BBPOST My only point was and is he had almost 12 years of political office-holder experience at both the state and federal leve
Using pop warner experience as a state level equivalent, would you think a person with 8 years as a Pop warner level assistant (not a HC), followed by 4 years as a HS assistant (not a coordinator), would be anything but laughable as a potential candidate to replace Rollo? MD is the top team in the country. How do you think that would go over...with you, Red or MDD?

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:37 pm

Bick wrote:Assuming you want a serious answer...
Why would you assume otherwise?

I don't see anything there to answer his question about how a corporate tax break would spur increased demand
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

Credo ut intelligam
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:39 pm

Obama manufacturing a crisis at the border in 2014. Biden is clearly complicit.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... LhY6KkhEq0

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:41 pm

Bick wrote:Using pop warner experience as a state level equivalent
Seriously? It's really not that difficult. We have 2 years of reality to judge him by. Just look at the job of hiring, managing and governing he's done so far.
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

Bick
Posts: 5003
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:42 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:QR_BBPOST Why would you assume otherwise?

I don't see anything there to answer his question about how a corporate tax break would spur increased demand
The experience I've had on this board seems less about a real conversation, and more about ridicule when opinions differ.

Where did you get lost on the example, and I'll explain further?

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:43 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:Obama manufacturing a crisis at the border in 2014.
So you agree that Trump is manufacturing a crisis?
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

Credo ut intelligam
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:49 pm

Jim Acosta makes the President's point. Walls (steel slats) work!


User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:53 pm

Bick wrote:The experience I've had on this board seems less about a real conversation, and more about ridicule when opinions differ.
You mean like this?
Bick wrote:Where did you get lost on the example, and I'll explain further?
Let me ask again in a simpler way. Why would the owner of Company A see receiving a corporate tax break as a reason to expand his business?
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

Bick
Posts: 5003
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:07 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:QR_BBPOST Let me ask again in a simpler way. Why would the owner of Company A see receiving a corporate tax break as a reason to expand his business?
Assuming Co A made $100k / yr, a 10% tax reduction would mean $10k to the bottom line each year for the foreseeable future. Knowing this, he could purchase a $50k piece of machinery that he estimates would generate incremental revenue. Because of the relative certainty of the incremental cash from the tax break, he could reasonably expect to pay off the equipment in 5 years that he would not have otherwise risked.

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 8259
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:13 pm

Why would receiving a corporate tax break cause him to assume there will be increased demand to justify expanding/upgrading to "to add another income channel"?
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

Credo ut intelligam
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:23 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:So you agree that Trump is manufacturing a crisis?
No, my heading was obviously facetious. The 2014 UAM situation was surely a crisis, as is the situation today. I would argue we've been in a steady crisis situation on the border since the early 1980's, with spikes and fluctuations throughout that time. The border should have been physically secured 35 years ago; today we also need strong E-Verify and strict penalties for hiring unauthorized workers. A temporary or seasonal worker program should also be considered if there is a true need for the labor.

Post Reply