Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

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John Q. Public
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:08 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Why does it have to be either or? Why not use all the tools at our disposal?
Same reason it has to be a Porsche or a Tesla. Or maybe a Porsche or a used Camry. We could double the number of immigration judges for a fraction of what a "barrier" would cost. And it would cut down the number of legal asylum applicants we're holding.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:20 pm

Professor Fate wrote: Cameras alone only allow the border patrol to see people successfully sneaking in, and disappearing into the country before they can get to them. A barrier slows them down enough so when the cameras spot them, the Border Patrol can get to them before that happens.
In theory. To protect the border how many cameras and how many ready-alert agents would it take? Any idea?

Don't you think this is the sort of thing that needs to be discussed before we spend $5 billion?
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:43 pm

Yes and yes.
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:01 pm

Fordama wrote: Same with Trump. He has no leadership experience and never takes responsibility for any failures.
Understandable that a public employee wouldn't think that owning a business with over 20,000 employees for a few decades, with revenues close to $10 billion, would constitute leadership experience or accountability.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Wabash » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:42 pm

There has been little to no accountability given all the times he's gone BK.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:51 pm

I was a manager in the private sector and I haven't seen much in the way of management or leadership skills. Look at the top level turnover he's had. You call that management? Making a lot of money for yourself and managing and leading are very different things.
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by broman » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:08 pm

GOP senators privately gathered in Sen. Lindsey Graham's office Wednesday to discuss a way out of the logjam. The long-shot idea: propose an immigration deal that would include $5.7 billion for Trump's border wall along with several provisions that could entice Democrats. Those items include changes to help those who are a part of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program as well as immigrants from El Salvador and other countries impacted by the Temporary Protected Status program - along with modifications to H-2B visas. The plan is in its very early stages. Its chances of success are still very uncertain at best, Republicans cautioned.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/politics ... index.html

Wasn't the "big deal" already rejected?

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:22 pm

DACA and TPS are both protected by court orders, so neither one is much of a bargaining chip. The H2B visas might be but it isn't something that can't be done another time, and trading that for even 20 bucks in wall money would be caving for the Democrats. The alleged master negotiator's problem is that he brought nothing to the table that even resembles leverage. And he claims to be good at this?
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:39 pm

AP gets it right:
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Wabash » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:03 pm

We have gone over this numerous times. The GOP is responsible party. They won't allow a vote on bills that would open the government.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:13 pm

Strange tease on that tweet. The article says nothing of the sort. It's just your standard Trump fact check - "That's not true," "That's contrary to the facts," etc. :eh?:
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:14 pm

Wabash wrote: We have gone over this numerous times. The GOP is responsible party.
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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:24 pm

Oh geez. Donald's speech to the 2004 graduating class at Tegucigalpa U.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:34 pm

Make Them Cry Again In 2020

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Wabash » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:34 pm

Anyone who knows how legislation works knows it is more than just an opinion.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Wabash » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:35 pm

Cher. ROFL
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:19 pm

Students at American University hated some of President Trump's quotes on illegal immigration... before finding out the quotes were from Chuck Schumer, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton.


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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Bick » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:13 pm

John Q. Public wrote: I was a manager in the private sector and I haven't seen much in the way of management or leadership skills. Look at the top level turnover he's had. You call that management? Making a lot of money for yourself and managing and leading are very different things.
The point was that he HAD a substantial amount top level leadership experience that could've / should've / was evaluated prior to becoming POTUS.

Whether you or I agree with his leadership style in office is a separate issue.
Wabash wrote: There has been little to no accountability given all the times he's gone BK.
6 of the 500 companies he owns filed for bankruptcy in 40 years, or just north of 1% of his business ventures failed. While I understand liberals like you bat 100% on the businesses you've owned, some of us non-liberal types weren't able to find the money printing machine, and were held accountable with a failed business.

But if you really want to punish presidents for their business bankruptcies, I guess you'll be starting that petition to demo the Lincoln Monument and find a suitable replacement for the photo on the $50 bill. Obama already got a head start on you with Denali.

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:40 am

Bick wrote:3 years as a US senator, while 3 years more than Trump, is not nearly enough
Almost 4 years, and how much is "enough", anyway? And you keep ignoring his almost 8 year tenure in the Illinois Senate. So that's almost 12 years of government office-holder experience, while Trump had zero.

And now, all can see full well how Trump's years of business experience have translated to actual governing...

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Re: Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:01 am

And he didn't do a bad job. MOF, people who study such things say he did a damned good job.
Bick wrote: While I understand liberals like you bat 100% on the businesses you've owned, some of us non-liberal types weren't able to find the money printing machine, and were held accountable with a failed business
Sorry to hear about yours but thanks for the recognition.

Turnover at any level is expensive. Turnover at the top is VERY expensive. Imagine the effect on a major corporation if virtually all of its C-level executives quit or were fired over the course of two years because of its impetuous CEO. Just watch the guy and imagine if GM, Exxon or P&G were run by someone like him. You can't, because it would never happen. He'd have been drummed out before he got to regional level.

Not that this has anything to do with "Illegal immigration: wrong then, wrong now" but so far our experiment with hiring a businessman to run a government has been a pretty dismal failure. The two might look similar but they aren't. I'd much rather have a president who understands government.
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