I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

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MDDad
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby MDDad » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:38 pm

Bick wrote:If Weinstein sexually harrassed Ashley Judd, and she said nothing about that, and then gets in front of thousands to denounce some crass thing Trump SAID 10 years ago...yeah, that's hypocritical.

Jonah Goldberg in his column today addressed that same hypocrisy. He wrote, "Why didn't they speak up earlier? Perhaps because attacking Weinstein had downsides while attacking, say, Donald Trump promised only rewards."

It should also be pointed out that in 2004, New York Times reporter Sharon Waxman wrote a detailed expose on Weinstein's extracurricular activities. The Times killed the article after Weinstein, a major advertiser in the paper, got wind of the story and expressed his displeasure. It seems not only is most of the liberal entertainment business hypocritical when it comes to covering up sexual harassment while feigning support for women's rights, so is one of the nation's leading liberal newspapers.



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Omar Bongo
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:43 pm

Bick wrote:So Ashley Judd was actually sexually harassed by this guy 20 years ago, and says nothing while countless others go through that and worse.

Omar Bongo wrote:Blaming the victim, what a novel approach...is "super-ironic" a word?

Bick wrote:You must really think you're adept at spin to roll with that one here.

Umm, Ashley Judd was a victim, where exactly was the spin? Were you commending her?

Bick wrote:Isn't the real issue not that they kept quiet, but then went on the attack on Trump for far less?

With the state of politics in this country I concede that might be the real issue for some, but the reality is that Weinstein was in a position of power over Judd to the extent that she feared he could ruin her career if she spoke out. Your questioning her character instead of focusing on his is exhibit #1 as to why victims like her often keep quiet.
Last edited by Omar Bongo on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Omar Bongo
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:12 pm

MDDad wrote:3. And yes, an entire industry that...

Voila! Did you have to special order that broad brush? Thanks for sharing this convenient shortcut which effectively relieves us of the mental exertions involved in making moral evaluations based on the behavior of individuals. Back to the game!

joefutbol
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby joefutbol » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:54 pm

Bick wrote:If Weinstein sexually harrassed Ashley Judd, and she said nothing about that, and then gets in front of thousands to denounce some crass thing Trump SAID 10 years ago...yeah, that's hypocritical.

You implying I made a blanket statement that victims of rape or sexual harassment are hypocrites lacks integrity, Joe.


Well, you're saying that victims of rape or sexual harassment who denounce rape or sexual harassment are hypocrites or lack integrity if they didn't report the crimes committed against themselves. Or, are they only hypocrites or lack integrity if they're liberal and denounce the actions of conservatives? Or only if it's Ashley Judd? I don't get what you're saying. The vast majority of rapes and sexual assaults go unreported..... are you saying those who have been raped or sexually assaulted can't condemn sexual assault because they didn't report it? Please elaborate.

Bick
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Bick » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:48 pm

Judd demonized Trump for political purposes using accusations of sexual assault. Having actually been assaulted by him, she essentially gave Weinstein, a huge Democratic donor, a pass for doing much worse.

Choosing to condemn one v. the other on the basis of which serves your personal interests is hypocritical, right?

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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Bick » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:12 am

Omar Bongo wrote:With the state of politics in this country I concede that might be the real issue for some, but the reality is that Weinstein was in a position of power over Judd to the extent that she feared he could ruin her career if she spoke out. Your questioning her character instead of focusing on his is exhibit #1 as to why victims like her often keep quiet.


Your argument holds water for the 20 prior years up until the point where she grabbed a microphone to demonize Trump for much less than what a huge democratic donor did to her. That's where I'm calling BS.

There's something really sleazy about this whole thing. Reminds me of the Sandusky cover up. Who knew, who should have known, who had an obligation to report it, etc. This sounds like EVERYONE knew about it previously.

If you have a Twitter feed, read Rose McGowan's stuff. Pretty colorful language to say the least - especially towards Ben Affleck. George Clooney came in with this gem..."I never saw him do it"...classic! I guess all his political donation recipients and other actors he supported can all claim the same attempt at plausible deniability. The question is...who is going to believe it, and give THEM a pass for enabling the behavior?

Another interesting note is Weinstein going to France to get sex therapy. Any bets he stays there?

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Omar Bongo
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:41 am

Bick wrote:Judd demonized Trump for political purposes using accusations of sexual assault.

How in the wide world of sports can you "demonize" a guy who unabashedly boasts about using his celebrity status to get away with kissing strange women and grabbing their *****???

As for the rest of your argument it seems more colored by political paranoia than objective reasoning...sorry

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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby joefutbol » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:58 am

Bick wrote:Judd demonized Trump for political purposes using accusations of sexual assault


Whatever her purpose was, is she wrong for demonizing sexual assault... that he admitted to, by the way. Yes or no?

Bick wrote:Having actually been assaulted by him, she essentially gave Weinstein, a huge Democratic donor, a pass for doing much worse.


Do you know that's the reason she gave him a pass? I can see that.... "This guy raped me, but he gave money to my favorite politician so I'll let it slide." Makes perfect sense.


Bick wrote:Choosing to condemn one v. the other on the basis of which serves your personal interests is hypocritical, right?


Or, do you think it may be a little different to publicly accuse someone who has actually raped you as opposed to someone who admits to sexually assaulting multiple women but hasn't raped you? Apples to apples?

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Wabash
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Wabash » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 am

MDDad wrote:Jonah Goldberg in his column today addressed that same hypocrisy. He wrote, "Why didn't they speak up earlier? Perhaps because attacking Weinstein had downsides while attacking, say, Donald Trump promised only rewards."

Maybe because she was at the point where he was a man of power and she was powerless.

As we are seeing on this board the response is to shame the victim.
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 am

Bick wrote:Having actually been assaulted by him, she essentially gave Weinstein, a huge Democratic donor, a pass for doing much worse.

You left out the part about him having the power to kill her career or possibly his making her sign a non-disclosure agreement. Which he did with all employees and all of the victims he settled with, and which we'll never know. Because it's, like, a non-disclosure agreement.
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby MDDad » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:59 am

Omar Bongo wrote:Voila! Did you have to special order that broad brush?

No, Omar, you graciously loaned me yours. Don't you remember?

Reports are coming out from multiple sources that Weinstein's behavior was an "open secret", not only at his company, but at Miramax before that. What he did is also commonly known to be practiced by other power brokers in the entertainment industry. The term "casting couch" wasn't born of itself.

My use of the term "an entire industry" doesn't mean every member of that industry, any more than your use of the term "Republicans", "conservatives" or "Trump supporters". The facts remain. The entertainment industry is overwhelmingly liberal. Many of those members pride themselves on being champions of female rights and empowerment, knew this was a relatively common practice in the industry, and said nothing for decades. In my book, that's hypocrisy.

People's reactions to what Trump did can be discussed in the dozens of threads that have already mentioned it. Trump's actions have nothing to do with what Weinstein did or the people who knew about it.

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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Bick » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:40 am

joefutbol wrote:Whatever her purpose was, is she wrong for demonizing sexual assault... that he admitted to, by the way. Yes or no?


Hey Joe...when you're a celebrity, some females allow you to grab them.

Did I just admit to a crime?

joefutbol wrote:Do you know that's the reason she gave him a pass? I can see that.... "This guy raped me, but he gave money to my favorite politician so I'll let it slide." Makes perfect sense.


I'll have to admit I can't yet read minds, or what's truly in a person's heart. It just doesn't pass my smell test when you use the moral high ground to vilify someone who has done far less than another, so long as it suits your interests.

joefutbol wrote:Or, do you think it may be a little different to publicly accuse someone who has actually raped you as opposed to someone who admits to sexually assaulting multiple women but hasn't raped you? Apples to apples?


I'm not following you on this one. As a understand the definition of a hypocrite, it's someone who espouses a belief in certain principles, but is selective in how they are applied depending on how it would benefit them.

John Q. Public wrote:You left out the part about him having the power to kill her career or possibly his making her sign a non-disclosure agreement. Which he did with all employees and all of the victims he settled with, and which we'll never know. Because it's, like, a non-disclosure agreement.


Sorry John. Settlement agreements about sexual harassers are illegal and unenforceable. They conceal public hazards in the workplace.

Bick
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Bick » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:54 am

Omar Bongo wrote:How in the wide world of sports can you "demonize" a guy who unabashedly boasts about using his celebrity status to get away with kissing strange women and grabbing their *****???

As for the rest of your argument it seems more colored by political paranoia than objective reasoning...sorry


Be honest. Do you think he was referring to groupie type females drawn to celebrities, or do you think was he saying he could just walk up to any female and do that?

I've said pretty much the same thing to one of my friends, because I've seen it, and a helluva lot more, first hand. If someone were to hear a recording of that conversation, and then paint me as some sexual deviant for their gain, it would be improper. "Demonizing" is the correct term.

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John Q. Public
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:34 am

Bick wrote:Sorry John. Settlement agreements about sexual harassers are illegal and unenforceable. They conceal public hazards in the workplace.

In the workplace, yes. But considering the women who sued probably didn't pet the parts, and therefor didn't work for him, they probably are enforceable.
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Bick
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Bick » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:45 am

Agreements concealing illegal activity are not enforceable - plain and simple.

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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby joefutbol » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:08 am

Bick wrote:I'm not following you on this one. As a understand the definition of a hypocrite, it's someone who espouses a belief in certain principles, but is selective in how they are applied depending on how it would benefit them.


Two-thirds of sexual assaults go unreported. Are all those people hypocrites and simply don't report the crimes for some sort of personal gain? You should do a little reading on the topic. I don't think politics or hypocrisy are part of the equation.

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Fordama
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Fordama » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:22 am

MDDad wrote:Jonah Goldberg in his column today addressed that same hypocrisy. He wrote, "Why didn't they speak up earlier? ."
ring up sexual harassment while feigning support for women's rights, so is one of the nation's leading liberal newspapers.
Love it when men blame the female victims. Just reinforces why females often don't come forward.
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Wabash
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Wabash » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:25 pm

Winged bipeds of identical plummage tend to congregate.
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They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

MDDad
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby MDDad » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:31 pm

Fordama wrote:Love it when men blame the female victims. Just reinforces why females often don't come forward.

Hypocrisy isn't limited by gender.

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Professor Fate
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Re: I denounce Harvey Weinstein!

Postby Professor Fate » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:43 pm

Wabash wrote:by Wabash » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:25 pm

Winged bipeds of identical plummage tend to congregate.

Do they?

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Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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