Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

MDDad
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby MDDad » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:54 am

You'd be the first actor in history to win the Oscar, be the only nominee, and wrap up the lifetime achievement award.



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John Q. Public
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:08 am

Whatever. But at least I'd have one of them kewl 100% solid 24 karat gold plated knick knacks and you wouldn't. Pffft!
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Luca » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:37 pm

You have to distinguish opinion/impression from "fact", Paul. What JQ said was:

"And the fact is that their voting continues to lean toward people of the paler persuasions and the darker people continue to be overlooked, even though they may have done equally Oscar-worthy work."

You then cut-and-paste an article that contained the following facts (the remainder being impressions/opinions):

"There were 305 films eligible this year....... AMPAS president Cheryl Boone Isaacs..... announced the formation of A2020, a five-year plan in which the Academy and the studios will work on programs to ensure that top executives expand their thinking when hiring, mentoring and encouraging new talent.........But the harsh reality is that the film industry works at a glacial pace, locking in stars, writers and directors several years in advance........"

Nothing stated here makes JQ's opinion opinion factual. If he can present any evidence demonstrating that voters deliberately overlook "Oscar-worthy work", then I could agree with him. But when you make an accusation you're supposed to have evidence for it..........................Luca

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:35 pm

Try reading the article Omar. It states quite clearly why the boycott is being called for

Sigh...I'll ask the question a third time:

You said:
Even the Liberals in Hollywood can't escape being labeled

Exactly who was "labeling" who as what? You said it, can you explain why?

Advancing your own ridiculous theory Omar?

You said the nominations are decided on "merit". In reality, Oscar nominees are no more decided on merit than Presidential elections are.

Pop Quiz: Anyone care to guess what the ethnic breakdown of AMPAS is?
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Parrotpaul
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Parrotpaul » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:01 pm

Nothing stated here makes JQ's opinion opinion factual. If he can present any evidence demonstrating that voters deliberately overlook "Oscar-worthy work", then I could agree with him. But when you make an accusation you're supposed to have evidence for it..........................Luca

No problem....I just though an article might add some context.
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby crayegg » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:47 pm

I saw somewhere on the internet(s) the position that if Leonardo DiCaprio was black, everyone would just assume he has not won an Oscar because of the color of his skin.

Not really here nor there, but there may be some truth in that. We should all probably keep in mind that these awards are extremely subjective.

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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby sbayhills » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:02 pm

Sigh.......I'll post a third time from the article Omar.

That is, at least, a possibility as the #OscarSoWhite movement picks up steam — with even Academy president Cheryl Boone Isaacs responding to the outcry Monday night with a lengthy statement pledging to address the scandal.


Exactly who was "labeling" who as what? You said it, can you explain why?


Geez.........they're being accused of not nominating Black actors or movies that feature black actors by those who are boycotting.

In reality, Oscar nominees are no more decided on merit


That's nonsense. Now you're reduced to demeaning those current actors and those from the past who have been nominated.

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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Red » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:38 pm

Great call Tommy. I haven't watched the Oscars for at least 25 years. Where is Best Indonesian Dutch actors and actresses?
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Parrotpaul » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:32 pm

Huntington Beach.... :cheers:
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Wabash » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:38 pm

I view this spat as akin to when pro athletes go on strike. It's a bunch of millionaires food fighting each other. Somehow my life will go on. [/snark]
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:16 pm

sbayhills wrote:Geez.........they're being accused of not nominating Black actors or movies that feature black actors by those who are boycotting.

Yes, and that's exactly what happened, isn't it? This year, and last, all 40 acting nominees were white. This is a fact, and it's not in dispute here.

My question, for the 4th time, is what did you mean by "liberals are being labeled"? That was your statement, not theirs. Don't quote the article again, because it's not in there.

sbayhills wrote:That's nonsense. Now you're reduced to demeaning those current actors and those from the past who have been nominated.

Don't be silly. Of course the nominees are not decided on merit, it's a completely subjective process. If you wish to contend otherwise, please cite the objective standards used for nominating an acting performance.
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby sbayhills » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:52 pm

Omar I answered that in my 2nd sentence of my very first post.

Even the Liberals in Hollywood can't escape being labeled. Could it just be that the nominations were based on merit and not skin color


Seems pretty clear to me. Sorry if you don't agree that nominations are merit based. I believe they are.

Don't be silly. Of course the nominees are not decided on merit, it's a completely subjective process


That ridiculous comment defies logic Omar. Look at the list of Academy Award winners and their performances in the film they performed in, and then try to say that the majority of winners, didn't deserve their awards.

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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby MDDad » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:08 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:Of course the nominees are not decided on merit, it's a completely subjective process.
Just because a process or selection is subjective doesn't mean it can't be based on merit. In fact, "merit" is usually defined in subjective terms like goodness, excellence or high quality, none of which are objectively measurable.

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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Parrotpaul » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 pm

That ridiculous comment defies logic Omar. Look at the list of Academy Award winners and their performances in the film they performed in, and then try to say that the majority of winners, didn't deserve their awards.

Not so ridiculous at all, and no one claims the winners didn't deserve the honor, but frequently the other nominees have given performances equal to and sometimes better than the winners. It's totally subjective, and it's glitzy and glamorous, many doors open wide for many of the winners, and the film industry gets about three hours of carefully choreographed advertising...it's all good, but the award is probably based as much on a member's self-interest as it is on the film's cinematic merits, IMO.

Here's an interesting Rolling Stone article that discusses some of the films that didn't win the Oscar for "Best Picture."

(Actual Winner: Ordinary People)
Initially, Martin Scorsese didn't understand why Robert De Niro responded to the true story of Jake LaMotta, a former prizefighter turned nightclub stand-up comic. But after bottoming out due to drug addiction and exhaustion, the director saw himself in the middleweight champion's stumbles toward redemption — resulting in one of the director's most personal films. Failure, guilt, jealousy, persecution, the inexplicable compulsion to get beat up: The movie could be Scorsese's Stations of the Cross. And as LaMotta, De Niro was ferocious, ugly, compelling and never as brutally magnificent again
.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/list ... 1-20150211
Last edited by Parrotpaul on Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Wabash » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:29 pm

The selection criteria is done via secret ballot. There is somewhat of a popularity contest involved. I don't know these individuals on a personal level. I'm sure many of the academy voters do. I have no doubt that factors into the decision making process.
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:20 pm

sbayhills wrote:Omar I answered that in my 2nd sentence of my very first post.

No you didn't, again...since you seem incapable of understanding or answering, I'll move on

sbayhills wrote:Sorry if you don't agree that nominations are merit based. I believe they are.

You're free to believe that if you want, but it doesn't make it true.

To "merit" means to deserve or be worthy of reward, punishment, attention, etc. Academy Award nominations are decided by the votes of academy members based on their personal opinions, not on whether they deserve one or not. According to your logic, 2001: A Space Odyssey didn't "merit" a Best Picture nomination in 1968, but Rachel, Rachel did.

Don't be silly. Of course the nominees are not decided on merit, it's a completely subjective process


sbayhills wrote:That ridiculous comment defies logic Omar

If so, then you won't have any problem showing me the objective criteria used for nominating an acting performance, will you?

sbayhills wrote:Look at the list of Academy Award winners and their performances in the film they performed in, and then try to say that the majority of winners, didn't deserve their awards.

How can you tell?
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:51 pm

MDDad wrote:Just because a process or selection is subjective doesn't mean it can't be based on merit. In fact, "merit" is usually defined in subjective terms like goodness, excellence or high quality, none of which are objectively measurable.

If you're saying that the nominations are completely subjective, then you are agreeing with me. My point is that just because you or I think a particular acting performance "merits" a nomination, it doesn't mean it does in any objective sense.
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:56 pm

Luca wrote:Nothing stated here makes JQ's opinion opinion factual. If he can present any evidence demonstrating that voters deliberately overlook "Oscar-worthy work", then I could agree with him. But when you make an accusation you're supposed to have evidence for it.

I never said they do it deliberately. Matter of fact, I deliberately said they might do it subconsciously. The Academy is a microcosm of the general population. Well, ok, maybe of the general population of the Valley, but it isn't made up only of Sean Penns, George Clooneys and Michael Moores, like some seem to believe. There's a whole lot of just average folks in the Academy. I've known a couple. This is Southern California. Probably a lot of us have known some whether we were aware of it or not. And not all of them watch every movie and they probably don't notice every detail in the ones they do watch. They're human. They pick their favorite 10 of the movies they saw. There's a good chance they might not have seen the ones with especially good performances by minority actors or they might have personally liked somebody else better. They aren't critics; they're electricians and camera operators and set designers. Like Omar said, the nominations are totally subjective.

But... 12 Years a Slave did win 3 Oscars two years ago and the movies that are being "ignored" this year are Creed (Rocky XXVIIIIIIIII) and Straight Outta Compton. Given the makeup of the people doing the voting, I can completely understand why either of those might have been overlooked - as in not even watched - by many of them.
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:06 pm

If someone can prove that any more than a handful of the 94% Caucasian academy voters watched SOC I'll eat crackers for a week...
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Re: Spike Lee and Jada Smith call for Oscar Boycott

Postby Luca » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:23 pm

What you said was:

"And the fact is that their voting continues to lean toward people of the paler persuasions and the darker people continue to be overlooked, even though they may have done equally Oscar-worthy work."

You don't have any evidence for that comment. You don't know that "the darker people continue to be overlooked" nor do you know that theirs is "equally Oscar-worthy work." You don't know that the productions that haven't been recognized are not simply inferior. You are simply stating opinions of what you think might be the case. There is nothing factual about that opinion.

Had you simply said "I believe that... etc. etc." you would be perfectly justified in having your opinion.

I don't know what percentage of movies or actors/actresses are black or Hispanic or Asian, etc. but to imply that simply because you don't feel that your particular interest group is getting its "fair share" of awards doesn't indicate that there is discrimination - deliberate or subconscious - involved..............Luca

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