THE FISCAL CLIFF

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tLIB
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THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:09 pm

Whoever is President in January will face the FISCAL CLIFF. It will be interesting. I wonder if Romney is elected if he will do something to avoid it. Dave, and other deficit hawks, would love to see the FISCAL CLIFF. It will be great for cutting the deficit, but I expect stock prices to fall through the Floor.

“Fiscal cliff” is the popular shorthand term used to describe the conundrum that the U.S. government will face at the end of 2012. U.S. lawmakers have a choice: they can either let current policy go into effect at the beginning of 2013 – which features a number of tax increases and spending cuts that are expected to weigh heavily on growth and possibly drive the economy back into a recession


I think it is basically all of the Simpson-Bowles commission recommendations realized.

Isn't it going to be excited - and is Romney and Ryan a deficit hawk, or is it unimportant to them? We will see.



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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:19 am

tLIB wrote:Whoever is President in January will face the FISCAL CLIFF. It will be interesting. I wonder if Romney is elected if he will do something to avoid it. Dave, and other deficit hawks, would love to see the FISCAL CLIFF. It will be great for cutting the deficit, but I expect stock prices to fall through the Floor.



I think it is basically all of the Simpson-Bowles commission recommendations realized.

Isn't it going to be excited - and is Romney and Ryan a deficit hawk, or is it unimportant to them? We will see.


I think the day after Romney wins the election the stock market will go through the roof.

His first move will be to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:50 am

SLK230 wrote:
I think the day after Romney wins the election the stock market will go through the roof.

His first move will be to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

I think the six months after Obama is elected we will see unemployment start dropping as the corporate interests that are sitting on record amounts of cash start hiring.

Why do you cling to the myth that tax cuts create jobs? That has been proven to be a complete falsehood. We've had some of the lowest tax rates for over a decade with the current unemployment rate as the result.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

afan95
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby afan95 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:06 am

Wabash wrote:I think the six months after Obama is elected we will see unemployment start dropping as the corporate interests that are sitting on record amounts of cash start hiring.

Why do you cling to the myth that tax cuts create jobs? That has been proven to be a complete falsehood. We've had some of the lowest tax rates for over a decade with the current unemployment rate as the result.

What makes you think they will start hiring then? If they've been sitting on all that cash and have been able to run their organizations OK, why would they change? You're implying that they've been holding off hiring to keep the hiring numbers down so Obama won't get elected. What makes you think they won't just keep doing that for a bit more if they're the evil, greedy people that you make them out to be?
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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:08 am

Wabash wrote:I think the six months after Obama is elected we will see unemployment start dropping as the corporate interests that are sitting on record amounts of cash start hiring.

Why do you cling to the myth that tax cuts create jobs? That has been proven to be a complete falsehood. We've had some of the lowest tax rates for over a decade with the current unemployment rate as the result.


Making it up again??? Putting words in my mouth again?

I didn't even use the word "jobs". All I said was that his first move will be to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

Gert real and respond to what was actually said.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:59 am

SLK230 wrote:Making it up again???

You mean like you did when you wrote:

I think the day after Romney wins the election the stock market will go through the roof.


SLK230 wrote:Putting words in my mouth again?

No. Where?

SLK230 wrote:I didn't even use the word "jobs". All I said was that his first move will be to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

I never said you used the words "jobs." My only point was in making my case for a hypothetical just like you did with your statement.

SLK230 wrote:Gert real and respond to what was actually said.

I did.

If tax cuts worked then we would have seen unemployment drop and stay low during the Bush years. Bush inherited a 4.2% unemployment rate from Clinton and handed off a 7.8% unemployment rate to Obama. When I was in school, we were taught 4.2% is a smaller number than 7.8%. Maybe it was different where you grew up.
Last edited by Wabash on Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:00 am

afan95 wrote:What makes you think they will start hiring then? If they've been sitting on all that cash and have been able to run their organizations OK, why would they change? You're implying that they've been holding off hiring to keep the hiring numbers down so Obama won't get elected. What makes you think they won't just keep doing that for a bit more if they're the evil, greedy people that you make them out to be?

Because any CEO worth their salt knows that unless they are growing they are dying. They'll start spending cash to go after market share. That will require hiring to keep up with the demand.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:19 am

Wabash wrote:Because any CEO worth their salt knows that unless they are growing they are dying. They'll start spending cash to go after market share. That will require hiring to keep up with the demand.


Any CEO worth his salt knows that you can't get blood (money) out of people who don't have it.

There are 15,000,000 people unemployed or under employed do you really think they are going to spend any more than they absolutely have to?

I wouldn't hire anyone more than absolutely necessary until the economy starts to improve. The simple fact is that there are fewer people working today than when Obama took office.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:43 am

SLK230 wrote:Any CEO worth his salt knows that you can't get blood (money) out of people who don't have it.

Sitting on cash does them no good either.

SLK230 wrote:There are 15,000,000 people unemployed or under employed do you really think they are going to spend any more than they absolutely have to?

They will once they start working.

SLK230 wrote:I wouldn't hire anyone more than absolutely necessary until the economy starts to improve. The simple fact is that there are fewer people working today than when Obama took office.

That's why you were never a Fortune 400 CEO.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Vilepagan
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Vilepagan » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:47 am

Wabash wrote:When I was in school, we were taught 4.2% is a smaller number than 7.8%. Maybe it was different where you grew up.


[mod="Vilepagan"]When I was in forum etiquette class, I was taught to make reference to the posts, not the posters[/mod]
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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John Q. Public
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:49 am

Wabash wrote:I think the six months after Obama is elected we will see unemployment start dropping as the corporate interests that are sitting on record amounts of cash start hiring.

Unemployment will go down when Romney stops campaigning, regardless of who wins. Our economy is driven by consumer spending and consumers don't spend when all they hear is gloom and doom.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:00 am

John Q. Public wrote:Unemployment will go down when Romney stops campaigning, regardless of who wins. Our economy is driven by consumer spending and consumers don't spend when all they hear is gloom and doom.

Agreed. Romney is claiming 12M jobs if he is elected. Coincidentally that is the same number being forecasted by the CBO regardless of who is elected.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:55 am

Wabash wrote:That's why you were never a Fortune 400 CEO.


How do you know what I was in my 40 years of work history?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:58 am

John Q. Public wrote:Unemployment will go down when Romney stops campaigning, regardless of who wins. Our economy is driven by consumer spending and consumers don't spend when all they hear is gloom and doom.


Gloom and doom? Now that's funny.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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John Q. Public
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:01 am

I guess you're easily amused.
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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:11 am

John Q. Public wrote:I guess you're easily amused.



The funniest part is the name of the thread. "The Fiscal Cliff"


A totally made up hypothetical reference to a nondescript event.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:14 am

SLK230 wrote:
How do you know what I was in my 40 years of work history?

It's obvious.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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John Q. Public
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:36 am

SLK230 wrote:The funniest part is the name of the thread. "The Fiscal Cliff"


A totally made up hypothetical reference to a nondescript event.

Raising taxes, drastically cutting spending and throwing the economy back into recession is nondescript? You must have all of your money in metals.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:03 am

Interesting link on jobs.

Everyone is focused on the unemployment rate, but we all know that that excludes those no longer looking for work.

Most interesting to me is the following chart.

[img=left]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bls-emp-pop-ratio-2012-8.jpg[/img]

For two years the percentage of the populous employed dropped, and it is not coming back. That to me is much more telling than this ridiculous spin I heard the other day that Obama has replaced all the jobs lost during his administration.

it seems pretty clear to me that what he is doing is not working. We cannot rob from the rich to give to the poor, as the rich just don't have that much money. we need expansionary political policy to make that happen, and mr. Obama does not seem to know what that is.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:04 am

John Q. Public wrote:Raising taxes, drastically cutting spending and throwing the economy back into recession is nondescript? You must have all of your money in metals.


I know we differ on this, but we cannot continue to stay in the red. we do not have the money, and the eventual collapse that will come when we can no longer borrow will make the 2008 collapse look like a mild recession.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift

http://www.civilityinamerica.org/en/index.html

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