THE FISCAL CLIFF

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:07 am

AsIfYouKnew wrote:Interesting link on jobs.

Everyone is focused on the unemployment rate, but we all know that that excludes those no longer looking for work.

Most interesting to me is the following chart.

Since when have conservatives ever cared about those not looking for work? The rote response to the Occupy Movement was for the protestors to go get a job.


They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:12 am

John Q. Public wrote:Raising taxes, drastically cutting spending and throwing the economy back into recession is nondescript? You must have all of your money in metals.


The point is it is a made up term to describe what?

It is all speculation.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:15 am

Wabash wrote:It's obvious.


What is obvious? You know nothing of me or my work history. 40 years of work is a very long time.

At least ever since I started posting on this and the previous board I have only used 1 name I never had to hide anything.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:18 am

Wabash wrote:Since when have conservatives ever cared about those not looking for work? The rote response to the Occupy Movement was for the protestors to go get a job.


Your hatred is based upon ignorance. Conservatives actually do care for humanity as a whole much more than Democrats seem to do. For instance, conservatives give more to charity than liberals, and do more volunteer work than liberals.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift

http://www.civilityinamerica.org/en/index.html

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Parrotpaul
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Parrotpaul » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:27 am

That's because most liberals are out there working a couple jobs to get over themselves. If we're talking generalities.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:38 am

SLK230 wrote:What is obvious?

Is this a rhetorical question?

SLK230 wrote: You know nothing of me or my work history. 40 years of work is a very long time.

Yes. 40 years is a long time.

SLK230 wrote:At least ever since I started posting on this and the previous board I have only used 1 name I never had to hide anything.

Same here.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:39 am

Parrotpaul wrote:That's because most liberals are out there working a couple jobs to get over themselves. If we're talking generalities.


Pardon me for saying, but that is total BS.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift

http://www.civilityinamerica.org/en/index.html

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:41 am

AsIfYouKnew wrote:Your hatred is based upon ignorance.

What hatred are you referring? There was no hate comments except those you fabricated in your biased perspective.

AsIfYouKnew wrote: Conservatives actually do care for humanity as a whole much more than Democrats seem to do. For instance, conservatives give more to charity than liberals, and do more volunteer work than liberals.

BS. Conservatives could care less about humanity. If that were the case, there wouldn't be so many conservative interests living off government largesse all the while complaining about taxation.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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tLIB
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:46 am

SLK230 wrote: His first move will be to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.


Then we won't go off the fiscal cliff. This would halt the automatic spending cuts. But the deficit will continue to skyrocket. Neither Dems or Reps advocate spending cuts. Republicans say they want to slow the rate of increase.

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:49 am

SLK230 wrote: His first move will be to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.


tLIB wrote:Then we won't go off the fiscal cliff. This would halt the automatic spending cuts. But the deficit will continue to skyrocket. Neither Dems or Reps advocate spending cuts. Republicans say they want to slow the rate of increase.

Especially when one considers the impact of tax cuts has always been significantly higher deficits.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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tLIB
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:14 pm

afan95 wrote:What makes you think they will start hiring then? If they've been sitting on all that cash and have been able to run their organizations OK, why would they change? You're implying that they've been holding off hiring to keep the hiring numbers down so Obama won't get elected. What makes you think they won't just keep doing that for a bit more if they're the evil, greedy people that you make them out to be?


If I had a choice, I would want a middle class tax cut (or extend them). This would push the economy forward.

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tLIB
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:16 pm

Wabash wrote: Especially when one considers the impact of tax cuts has always been significantly higher deficits.


There are two parts to austerity - tax INCREASES and spending CUTS. I don't think any of the candidates are serious about the debt, although I hear many people champion austerity for Greece.

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tLIB
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:24 pm

SLK230 wrote:

The funniest part is the name of the thread. "The Fiscal Cliff"


A totally made up hypothetical reference to a nondescript event.


Al, you are wrong on this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_cliff

The United States fiscal cliff refers to a predicted significant reduction in the budget deficit[1] and corresponding slowing of the economy if specific laws are allowed to automatically expire or go into effect at the end of 2012.[2] These include tax increases due to the expiration of the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 and the spending reductions ("sequestrations") under the Budget Control Act of 2011.

Under current law, which mandates these tax increases and spending cuts, the deficit for 2013 is projected to be reduced by roughly half, with the cumulative deficit over the next ten years to be lowered by as much as $7.1 trillion. However, it is also projected to cause a double-dip recession in the first half of 2013.



They have been talking about the "Fiscal cliff" for some time now. The Nightly Business Report had a whole segment on it a couple nights ago. They talk about it on Bloomberg and CNBC.

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tLIB
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:28 pm

AsIfYouKnew wrote: I know we differ on this, but we cannot continue to stay in the red. we do not have the money, and the eventual collapse that will come when we can no longer borrow will make the 2008 collapse look like a mild recession.


Dave is one of the biggest deficit hawks I know. The only guy that advocates tax increases AND spending cuts to cut the deficit. But it sounds like you are with Dave on this subject.

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SLK230
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby SLK230 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:32 pm

tLIB wrote:
Al, you are wrong on this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_cliff

The United States fiscal cliff refers to a predicted significant reduction in the budget deficit[1] and corresponding slowing of the economy if specific laws are allowed to automatically expire or go into effect at the end of 2012.[2] These include tax increases due to the expiration of the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 and the spending reductions ("sequestrations") under the Budget Control Act of 2011.

Under current law, which mandates these tax increases and spending cuts, the deficit for 2013 is projected to be reduced by roughly half, with the cumulative deficit over the next ten years to be lowered by as much as $7.1 trillion. However, it is also projected to cause a double-dip recession in the first half of 2013.



They have been talking about the "Fiscal cliff" for some time now. The Nightly Business Report had a whole segment on it a couple nights ago. They talk about it on Bloomberg and CNBC.


I agree. My point however is it is total projection with no "fact" behind it. A total hypothetical. It is a formula with no numbers plugged in. The term in of itself is meaningless.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:32 pm

tLIB wrote:
There are two parts to austerity - tax INCREASES and spending CUTS. I don't think any of the candidates are serious about the debt, although I hear many people champion austerity for Greece.

I agree with you. We now have real life examples of austerity alone only making things worse in the countries where it has been tried.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:22 pm

Wabash wrote:What hatred are you referring? There was no hate comments except those you fabricated in your biased perspective.


BS. Conservatives could care less about humanity. If that were the case, there wouldn't be so many conservative interests living off government largesse all the while complaining about taxation.


you obviously have a deep seated hatred for conservative (or for anyone that disagrees with you, for all i know). Otherwise, why would you consistently refer to conservatives as bad people? I know that others might say the same things about liberals, perhaps using different adjectives, but the snarky remarks and ridiculous generalizations don't further the discussion. they only create distance between you and others. that posting style is irritating to those that are actually trying to have a dialogue.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift

http://www.civilityinamerica.org/en/index.html

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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:24 pm

tLIB wrote:
Dave is one of the biggest deficit hawks I know. The only guy that advocates tax increases AND spending cuts to cut the deficit. But it sounds like you are with Dave on this subject.


yes, on this point i guess i am with dave. i believe that the only way out of this is to reduce wealth transfers and grow the economy.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift

http://www.civilityinamerica.org/en/index.html

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tLIB
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby tLIB » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:49 pm

SLK230 wrote:
I agree. My point however is it is total projection with no "fact" behind it. A total hypothetical. It is a formula with no numbers plugged in. The term in of itself is meaningless.


There are some real numbers though - especially on the spending cut site. The increase in tax revenue is estimated. Personally, I see stocks dropping drastically and a double-dip recession. It is like taking medicine - you know it will make you better but it tastes real bad at first.

As per how bad the recession will be - you are right, no one has actual figures. The CBO made some projections

Image

I have never heard anyone say this will be good for the economy in the short run. Everyone I have heard say it will cause a recession. In fact, on the NBR they called it the first ever "planned" recession.

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Wabash
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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Postby Wabash » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:51 pm

AsIfYouKnew wrote:you obviously have a deep seated hatred for conservative (or for anyone that disagrees with you, for all i know).

It's not about AIYK.

AsIfYouKnew wrote:Otherwise, why would you consistently refer to conservatives as bad people?

I've said no such thing.

AsIfYouKnew wrote:I know that others might say the same things about liberals, perhaps using different adjectives, but the snarky remarks and ridiculous generalizations don't further the discussion. they only create distance between you and others. that posting style is irritating to those that are actually trying to have a dialogue.

Irony, I get it. Especially when one looks at your signature line.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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