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Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:58 pm
by AsIfYouKnew
Wabash wrote: It's not about AIYK.


I've said no such thing.


Irony, I get it. Especially when one looks at your signature line.
My signature line was, IMHO, the best line from the RNC. It is not making any generalizations about liberals as being bad people. But if you really believe that conservatives don't care about people, I take that as either an incredibly ignorant statement or an intentional attack upon people that for the most part just disagree with you about how to approach the problems we have today. Again, your snarky comments don't add anything to the discussion, and even VilePagan has noted that on another thread. I know I am not alone in this position, and just think you should take a bit more time to make your point without the constant ad hominem attacks.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:01 pm
by Wabash
AsIfYouKnew wrote: My signature line was, IMHO, the best line from the RNC. It is not making any generalizations about liberals as being bad people. But if you really believe that conservatives don't care about people, I take that as either an incredibly ignorant statement or an intentional attack upon people that for the most part just disagree with you about how to approach the problems we have today. Again, your snarky comments don't add anything to the discussion, and even VilePagan has noted that on another thread. I know I am not alone in this position, and just think you should take a bit more time to make your point without the constant ad hominem attacks.
You can take it either way. It doesn't change the fact actions by conservatives in the last three years bear out its accuracy.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:04 pm
by AsIfYouKnew
Wabash wrote: You can take it either way. It doesn't change the fact actions by conservatives in the last three years bear out its accuracy.
No, it doesn't. The fact is that conservatives for the past three years have been pressing for cuts in spending and a stablization of the tax environment. This is due to an intelligent assessment of where our economy is, and where the most effective allocation of resources are. This does not make them bad people, they are just people that disagree with how we should solve the current dilemma we are in.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:16 pm
by Wabash
AsIfYouKnew wrote: No, it doesn't. The fact is that conservatives for the past three years have been pressing for cuts in spending and a stablization of the tax environment. This is due to an intelligent assessment of where our economy is, and where the most effective allocation of resources are. This does not make them bad people, they are just people that disagree with how we should solve the current dilemma we are in.
How does that help people that are unemployed or don't have health insurance?

Taxes are the same when Bush left office. As I pointed out on a different place, Clinton left Bush a 4.2% unemployment rate with marginal tax rates 3% higher than they are now. Bush lowered taxes and handed off an unemployment rate at over 7%.

Believing that tax cuts will create jobs is one of the myths conservatives still hold despite evidence showing it doesn't do anything other than redistribute wealth upward and create ever larger deficits.

You claim conservatives are pressing for cuts in spending. When? They've rejected the proposed cuts and tax policy in Simpson Bowles report. Which include many of the proposals they have been pressing since they became aware of the debt and deficits in Jan. 2009. Something they didn't care about before that time.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:19 pm
by tLIB
AsIfYouKnew wrote:
yes, on this point i guess i am with dave. i believe that the only way out of this is to reduce wealth transfers and grow the economy.
Over the long run, I think it can improve the economy. But I will wager than Romney and Ryan won't want it to happen. They will get the tax cuts extended which will change everything. The spending cuts won't kick in, I think. But if Obama is elected, I wonder if the Republicans would work with Obama in preventing the Fiscal Cliff.

The Republicans are expected to hold on to purse-strings (the House), and they are also projected to control the Senate.

My question for my fellow Republicans is: Do you want to see austerity in the United States if Romney is elected?

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:20 pm
by AsIfYouKnew
Wabash wrote: How does that help people that are unemployed or don't have health insurance?

Taxes are the same when Bush left office. As I pointed out on a different place, Clinton left Bush a 4.2% unemployment rate with marginal tax rates 3% higher than they are now. Bush lowered taxes and handed off an unemployment rate at over 7%.

Believing that tax cuts will create jobs is one of the myths conservatives still hold despite evidence showing it doesn't do anything other than redistribute wealth upward and create ever larger deficits.

You claim conservatives are pressing for cuts in spending. When? They've rejected the proposed cuts and tax policy in Simpson Bowles report. Which include many of the proposals they have been pressing since they became aware of the debt and deficits in Jan. 2009. Something they didn't care about before that time.
Sorry, but perhaps if you actually understood economics, you would understand. however, I don't have time to educate you. It is like Reagan said, "It's not that liberals are ignorant, it is that so much of what they know is wrong".

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:57 pm
by Wabash
AsIfYouKnew wrote: Sorry, but perhaps if you actually understood economics, you would understand. however, I don't have time to educate you. It is like Reagan said, "It's not that liberals are ignorant, it is that so much of what they know is wrong".
Thanks for citing Reagan.

He started the US down its current path when he cut taxes, enacted record (for the time) deficits, and effectively tripled the national debt in eight years.

He turned the US from a creditor to a debtor nation. The impacts of what we still are feeling today.

I don't mind you ignoring the realities of the effects of trickle down econ. That is certainly your prerogative. It's a failed policy that has been proven by historical fact.

Love your quote that speaks in generalities. Something the conservatives on this board whine about when discussing my remarks.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:12 pm
by AsIfYouKnew
Wabash wrote: Thanks for citing Reagan.

He started the US down its current path when he cut taxes, enacted record (for the time) deficits, and effectively tripled the national debt in eight years.

He turned the US from a creditor to a debtor nation. The impacts of what we still are feeling today.

I don't mind you ignoring the realities of the effects of trickle down econ. That is certainly your prerogative. It's a failed policy that has been proven by historical fact.

Love your quote that speaks in generalities. Something the conservatives on this board whine about when discussing my remarks.
Your comments continue to show how you really don't have a grasp of economics. If you actually ever took a class in it, you should get a refund.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:38 pm
by barstow wiz
AsIfYouKnew wrote:Your comments continue to show how you really don't have a grasp of economics. If you actually ever took a class in it, you should get a refund.
AsIfYouKnew wrote:your logic is flawed. your appeal to ridicule is not a sound argument. it would be nice if you used a sound argument, rather than making snide remarks about people that disagree with you.
:bonk:

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:49 pm
by Wabash
AsIfYouKnew wrote:
Your comments continue to show how you really don't have a grasp of economics. If you actually ever took a class in it, you should get a refund.
You have yet to prove me wrong.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:58 am
by John Q. Public
AsIfYouKnew wrote:My signature line was, IMHO, the best line from the RNC.
Maybe they could afford to move out if Staples gave them more hours.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:38 am
by SoMelo
Or... [BBvideo 425,350][/BBvideo]

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:30 am
by AsIfYouKnew
barstow wiz wrote:

:bonk:
An emoticon is not a very good response to a post you don't seem to understand.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:01 am
by tLIB
OK, listening to the business leaders today:They predict a huge contraction if we fall off the fiscal cliff.

I think this shows how much Wall Street is dependent on government spending. If the government quits spending, stock markets will crash. They say that is why the DJIA fell 300 points today. Prices are starting to get built into the market.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:48 am
by Parrotpaul
Watch the bounce...Europe is having much more impact on the market than any election backlash. I'm not convinced smart money has been betting on Romney since the 47% statement...that was a huge tipping point for his campaign. American companies who do major business in Europe got hurt yesterday...and probably with good reason considering the news. Trog...you still holding Ford? :mrgreen:

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:55 am
by afan95
JQP, the trend is not to give anyone hours that will force business owners to have to pay health insurance. Case in point Olive Garden.
If you honestly think that every business owner that is doing this is a non-Democrat, non-liberal, then good for you. Their logic is that since their employee will be able to go out and buy health insurance on the health exchange or whatever it's called, is why they're doing it.
The business owners didn't write this law...the current administration did. Or at least they advocated for passing the law that would allow us to see what was in it.
The business owners are just following the law and the ones that will be doing it the most are the small business owners which will hurt the most people in this country.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:59 am
by Wabash
tLIB wrote:OK, listening to the business leaders today:They predict a huge contraction if we fall off the fiscal cliff.

I think this shows how much Wall Street is dependent on government spending. If the government quits spending, stock markets will crash. They say that is why the DJIA fell 300 points today. Prices are starting to get built into the market.
Then I believe it is incumbent upon conservatives to be part of the solution. Boehner stated yesterday he wants to work with the president on real reform for entitlements but also wants to take tax hikes off the table. Boehner must be under some delusion that he has some sort of strength in that position given that Obama can do nothing and the Bush tax cuts expire. Which will also raise taxes on those making less than $200K.

If that is their starting point I see a bloody fight coming in the days ahead.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:02 am
by John Q. Public
tLIB wrote:I think this shows how much Wall Street is dependent on government spending. If the government quits spending, stock markets will crash. They say that is why the DJIA fell 300 points today. Prices are starting to get built into the market.
We're all dependent on government spending. It's 20%+ of our GDP and there are whole industries and regions that would be hit hard if it were to be cut suddenly and severely. Think of what would happen to the South Bay if defense spending was slashed.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:07 am
by Wabash
The saving grace for the South Bay is that both sides consider defense spending sacred. Ironically some of the strongest conservatives I've ever met worked for defense contractors. They labored under the delusion that they were engaged in free enterprise. The second strongest group of conservatives I've ever met were military personnel.

It would always be fun listening to them bemoan big government. I would shake my head in disbelief given that both groups benefit from the poster child of big government.

Re: THE FISCAL CLIFF

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:13 am
by Brooke
Wabash wrote:As I pointed out on a different place, Clinton left Bush a 4.2% unemployment rate with marginal tax rates 3% higher than they are now.
Bill Clinton's own administration, more than any other, promoted an unsustainable housing boom, which eventually and inevitably led to a housing bust that brought down the whole American economy.

Behind all the complex financial processes that reached to Wall Street and beyond, there is one fundamental fact: many people stopped making their mortgage payments.

Why did that happen? Because mortgage loans were made to people who did not meet the long-established qualification standards for getting a mortgage loan. And why did that happen? Because the Clinton administration threatened lawsuits against lenders who did not approve mortgage loans to minority applicants as often as to white applicants.

In other words, racial quotas replaced credit qualifications. A failure to have racial statistics on mortgage approvals that fit the government's preconceptions was equated with discrimination.

Clinton's Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) had similar racial quota policies, and began taking legal actions against banks that turned down more minority applicants than HUD thought they should. http://townhall.com/columnists/thomasso ... s_standard