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Merkel: Germany successful because they still make things

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:14 pm
by kramer
While Germany's economy shrank in the last measured quarter, mostly due to the collapse of the overall European economy, it still runs a trade surplus with much lower unemployment than the U.S. - German Chancellor Angela Merkel once was asked by then-British prime minister Tony Blair what the secret was of her country's impressive success. She famously replied, "Mr. Blair, we still make things." In Germany, manufacturing still dominates finance, not the other way around, as Germany has continued to emphasize manufacturing and exports over the financial industry.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... an/273318/

IMO, having a large manufacturing base that builds things for the US and the world is the best way to create jobs, reduce our trade deficit and reduce our own deficit. Unfortunately, with the current group of people in the Whitehouse right now (and quite a few previous admins also get blame), it isn't going to happen: For example, in the first minute of the following video, Obama's John P. Holdren says:
I think ultimately that the rate of growth of material consumption is going to have to come down, and thereʼs going to have to be a degree of redistribution of how much we consume, in terms of energy and material resources, in order to leave room for people who are poor to become more prosperous.

http://oneworldgroup.org/2009/06/18/une ... cans-lives
[BBvideo 425,350][/BBvideo]

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:47 pm
by Brooke
kramer wrote: IMO, having a large manufacturing base that builds things for the US and the world is the best way to create jobs, reduce our trade deficit and reduce our own deficit.Unfortunately, with the current group of people in the Whitehouse right now (and quite a few previous admins also get blame), it isn't going to happen: For example, in the first minute of the following video, Obama's John P. Holdren says:
I think ultimately that the rate of growth of material consumption is going to have to come down, and thereʼs going to have to be a degree of redistribution of how much we consume, in terms of energy and material resources, in order to leave room for people who are poor to become more prosperous.
You are right of course. The question is why don't our leaders and those they choose to advise them know it too?

Look at this guy's statement. Does he actually think they can make that happen? They are idiots.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:00 pm
by kramer
Brooke wrote: The question is why don't our leaders and those they choose to advise them know it too?
I believe they do know. I think they are doing it for the following reasons (not necessarily in order of importance and some reasons not listed because I got to head out in a bit...):
1) To atone for colonization.
2) Our politicians (democrats way more so than republicans) are in the back pockets of foreign lobbyists.
3) Democrats hate that the USA is the most powerful and wealthy nation on the world just like they hate the rich white man. They tax the rich white man and they let foreign interests pluck our wealth and jobs.
4) Rockefeller has some kind of one-world vision where (from what I've read and interpreted) the who world trades with each other and each area will have some kind of division of labor so that no nation is totally independent hence no nation will go to war with another nation because if they did, they wouldn't get whatever goods or services anymore from the nation that lost.
5) Companies are also to blame but a large part of this blame goes to tariffs being lowered forcing companies who can't lower their wages below min wage laws or union wages to either close or move production offshore.

There's a few more reasons.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:45 pm
by Wabash
That's nice that Merkel believes that. But the US is still the dominant economic power in the world with a manufacturing base that isn't much lower (as a percent of GDP) than it was 30 and 40 years ago.

Our economy is only about 5x that of the GDR.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:59 am
by kramer
Wabash wrote:That's nice that Merkel believes that.
And why wouldn't it true? When you build something and sell it for a profit, you've acquired wealth, right? If you do it on a national/global scale, you acquire lots of wealth.

Funny how liberals point out that we lose wealth when we buy oil from the Middle East. Yet when it comes to buying goods from a developing country, they are strangely silent (like when they lay down on railroad tracks to stop coal death trains unless those trains are selling our coal to other nations)...

Wabash wrote: But the US is still the dominant economic power in the world with a manufacturing base that isn't much lower (as a percent of GDP) than it was 30 and 40 years ago.
Hard to believe that our manuf base isn't much lower than it was 30 or so years ago when we lost over a third of our manufacturing jobs since 2000 and when most of these were lost to offshoring. Perhaps the powers that be are calculating in the off shored manufacturing jobs US companies use?

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:20 am
by John Q. Public
kramer wrote:Funny how liberals point out that we lose wealth when we buy oil from the Middle East.

They do? I'd swear that was somebody else doing all the complaining.
Yet when it comes to buying goods from a developing country, they are strangely silent (like when they lay down on railroad tracks to stop coal death trains unless those trains are selling our coal to other nations)...
Don't look now, but Germany has much stricter environmental laws than we do, much stricter product safety and consumer protection laws, and it's much more highly unionized, to boot.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:32 am
by Wabash
kramer wrote: And why wouldn't it true? When you build something and sell it for a profit, you've acquired wealth, right? If you do it on a national/global scale, you acquire lots of wealth.
I didn't say that wasn't true.
kramer wrote:Funny how liberals point out that we lose wealth when we buy oil from the Middle East. Yet when it comes to buying goods from a developing country, they are strangely silent (like when they lay down on railroad tracks to stop coal death trains unless those trains are selling our coal to other nations)...
Why is that funny?
kramer wrote:Hard to believe that our manuf base isn't much lower than it was 30 or so years ago when we lost over a third of our manufacturing jobs since 2000 and when most of these were lost to offshoring. Perhaps the powers that be are calculating in the off shored manufacturing jobs US companies use?
It's only hard to believe to the uninformed. In the mid 60's, manufacturing was about 13% of GDP. Now it is about 12%. You are conflating manufacturing employment as a percentage of total employment. That's a different number. You reveal that you lack understanding of what constitutes being classified as manufacturing with this statement.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:05 pm
by Wabash
John Q. Public wrote: Don't look now, but Germany has much stricter environmental laws than we do, much stricter product safety and consumer protection laws, and it's much more highly unionized, to boot.
And as someone else pointed out tax rates that would make some in our nation go nutso. 45% top tax rate and 42% on anything above $53,000. Over 30% on dividends and capital gains. And then there is their national health care system that some claim is socialistic.

I do enjoy it when some want us to emulate Germany as a fiscal role model. It really shows they are clueless about contemporary German society. Though somehow they manage with a national law mandating four working weeks vacation every year, plus holidays.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:13 am
by Troglodyte
Wabash wrote: And as someone else pointed out tax rates that would make some in our nation go nutso. 45% top tax rate and 42% on anything above $53,000. Over 30% on dividends and capital gains. And then there is their national health care system that some claim is socialistic.

I do enjoy it when some want us to emulate Germany as a fiscal role model. It really shows they are clueless about contemporary German society. Though somehow they manage with a national law mandating four working weeks vacation every year, plus holidays.
Difference being that Germany's social programs are secure, reliable, reasonable, and the people think they get their money's worth.
Ours OTOH, depend on whichever way the political winds are blowing at the time and the funds are regularly raided for other political "necessities".

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:18 am
by Wabash
Troglodyte wrote:Difference being that Germany's social programs are secure, reliable, reasonable, and the people think they get their money's worth.
I sincerely doubt there are no skeptics in German society. BTW, the US's social programs (Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid) enjoy very high favorables in this country as well.
Troglodyte wrote:Ours OTOH, depend on whichever way the political winds are blowing at the time and the funds are regularly raided for other political "necessities".
Yeah. Like two unfunded wars. One of which was completely unnecessary.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:37 am
by Troglodyte
There are plenty of skeptics in Germany, but not about the social programs.. :wink:
Social Security and Medicare Are NOT looked upon favorably, but fearful as to what those idiots are gonna do to them next.
Wars do tend to screw up a nation's economy. We need to get off the "world police" kick and tell the UN to handle the problems on their own.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:47 am
by Wabash
Troglodyte wrote:There are plenty of skeptics in Germany, but not about the social programs.. :wink:
Social Security and Medicare Are NOT looked upon favorably, but fearful as to what those idiots are gonna do to them next.
Really? Please show your proof (other than your opinion) that Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are not considered favorably. Every time a change is considered there is grass roots support that opposes those changes. Typically from individuals on both sides of the aisle.
Troglodyte wrote:Wars do tend to screw up a nation's economy. We need to get off the "world police" kick and tell the UN to handle the problems on their own.
Yeah. Convenient you believe that now. Folks like you said nothing and in fact supported Bush's unnecessary war in Iraq.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:37 pm
by kramer
kramer wrote:Funny how liberals point out that we lose wealth when we buy oil from the Middle East.
John Q. Public wrote:They do? I'd swear that was somebody else doing all the complaining.
Nope. It's a standard argument from the left when they talk about renewables and global warming.


Yet when it comes to buying goods from a developing country, they are strangely silent (like when they lay down on railroad tracks to stop coal death trains unless those trains are selling our coal to other nations)...
John Q. Public wrote: Don't look now, but Germany has much stricter environmental laws than we do, much stricter product safety and consumer protection laws, and it's much more highly unionized, to boot.
Imagine how much more their economy would be going if these things weren't as strict.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:30 pm
by Wabash
kramer wrote:Imagine how much more their economy would be going if these things weren't as strict.
Doubtful. I'm betting the Germans have figured this out beyond your ability to comprehend what works best for them.

Can you name a democracy that embraces your mindset on how things should be run and do the citizens of that nation live better or worse than they do in Germany? Or the US for that matter?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:52 pm
by kramer
kramer wrote:Imagine how much more their economy would be going if these things weren't as strict.
Wabash wrote:Doubtful. I'm betting the Germans have figured this out beyond your ability to comprehend what works best for them.
Nope. If they had less stringent business and environmental regulations and left the more reasonable ones in place, their economy would do better.


Wabash wrote:Can you name a democracy that embraces your mindset on how things should be run and do the citizens of that nation live better or worse than they do in Germany? Or the US for that matter?
No. But I can name a Republic that embraced my mindset at one time -- the USA a long time ago.



(logged in today)

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:31 pm
by Wabash
kramer wrote: Nope. If they had less stringent business and environmental regulations and left the more reasonable ones in place, their economy would do better.
Can you point to an example where that has actually happened?
kramer wrote:No. But I can name a Republic that embraced my mindset at one time -- the USA a long time ago.
What time period are you referring?

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:06 pm
by Fordama
John Q. Public wrote: Don't look now, but Germany has much stricter environmental laws than we do, much stricter product safety and consumer protection laws, and it's much more highly unionized, to boot.
Yep. It's a big lie that the reason that American unions and regulations are the problem.

Fordama

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:09 pm
by Wabash
Fordama wrote: Yep. It's a big lie that the reason that American unions and regulations are the problem.

Fordama
Exactly right. Business has been complaining about regulations since child labor laws were passed. They demand special treatment in return for zero guarantees.

They act with the same type of entitlement they claim exists in others. They believe they are entitled to low or no taxes and no regulation. All while wanting to be afforded the services and market protections the government provides.

Re: Merkel: Germany successful because they still make thing

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:02 am
by Troglodyte
Wabash wrote: Really? Please show your proof (other than your opinion) that Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are not considered favorably. Every time a change is considered there is grass roots support that opposes those changes. Typically from individuals on both sides of the aisle.


Yeah. Convenient you believe that now. Folks like you said nothing and in fact supported Bush's unnecessary war in Iraq.
So you support my opinion that we look on Social security and MediCare fearfully, not favorably.. :wink:
"Folks like me" hardly ever support a war, much less an unnecessary one. You do go on...
If you go back through history, most wars have started under a Democrat president..