Obamacare 2017

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John Q. Public
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:12 pm

Dunno. That was the reason the insurance companies that had to double their rates gave. No stats on it but I wouldn't be surprised if the big rises were in states with high numbers of long-term uninsured people.


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MDDad
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby MDDad » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:34 pm

I don't believe all those companies got as large and wealthy as they are by being stupid and getting blindsided. They have their assumptions, calculations and pro-forma's down to a gnat's ass, and I seriously doubt the tidal wave of previously uninsured Americans suddenly seeking health care caught them by surprise.

ocfootballfan
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby ocfootballfan » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:25 pm

Then what would you attribute it to Dad.....bait and switch?

MDDad
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby MDDad » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:26 pm

I don't know, oc. "Bait and switch" sounds so dishonest and manipulative. However, the promise of lower costs has been replaced by the reality of higher costs. If this were the first time a government program delivered less and cost more than promised, I'd say it was a complete and naive ignorance of the factors that would drive the economics of the program. Unfortunately, it's not the first time. Maybe we not only had to pass the bill to find out what's in it, we also had to pass it to find out how long the shaft is.

Luca
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Luca » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:40 pm

It was known that the real costs of Obamacare were grossly underestimated and that the expenses would hit the fan only later. Like when Obama was on the way out. Anyone familiar with the Complexities of medical care could see that train coming, as MDDad alluded to.

I can't think of many examples of when the Feds have willingly ceded authority back to the states or even the private sector very successfully. I'm not optimistic this is going to work out well. But Obamacare is already not working out well anyway. Geez, it reminds me of that scene in The movie Gettysburg when General Buford says "God, I can see it so clearly it's like it's already happened!".

What a clusterfunk. And so predictable..............Luca

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John Q. Public
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:35 pm

MDDad wrote:I don't believe all those companies got as large and wealthy as they are by being stupid and getting blindsided.

Well, they did. You don't have to double rates or pull out of a market because of things you knew were coming. And note that not all of them had to do that. I think California's average premium actually went down. Some companies seem to have done the math well, others seem to have been, I guess, (not) blindsided.
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ocfootballfan
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby ocfootballfan » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:36 pm

Do you guys think that aggressive premium pricing with the introduction of adverse selection had anything to do with it? The former was not Administration based and the latter should have been known by those smart health insurance executives. The introduction of health insurance to a populace that maybe have never had it before and having to accept those patients with prior existing conditions is a game changer. It will never go back to what it was before. We have started down the road of socialized medicine and there's no turning around.

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Wabash
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Wabash » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:40 pm

Good. Healthcare is not a normal good. We should be headed to single payer.
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Parrotpaul
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Parrotpaul » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:36 pm

I'm fine with socialized medicine.
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Luca » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:11 pm

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul ............George Bernard Shaw

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:34 pm

That describes our income tax system perfectly. What's the problem, Peter?
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Luca
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Luca » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:48 pm

The tax system is not the topic of conversation........Luca

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Omar Bongo » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:21 pm

Neither was the Shaw quote you drag out every chance you get...nobody's robbing or paying anybody
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Luca
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Luca » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:19 am

I don't know what your strong point is, Omar, but certainly it isn't humor. Or irony.

FYI, Shaw was himself a socialist and it's ironic he would specifically mention "Paul"' who in this case is retired and would contribute little to the cost of a socialized system while consuming much of the benefit. Of course he would be "fine" with it.

As Shaw pointed out, most people are fine with that program that benefits them and it's curious he would forsee Paul as an example...............Luca

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John Q. Public
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby John Q. Public » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:41 pm

You forgot the part about "Paul" having been "robbed" for forty years, himself. That's why they call those things "insurance."
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Luca
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Luca » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:54 pm

JQ, what Paul said was

Parrotpaul wrote:I'm fine with socialized medicine.


Paul has presumably paid into Medicare, to which he is entitled. You're talking about insurance. Apples and oranges..............Luca

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John Q. Public
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby John Q. Public » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:38 pm

And if we switched to socialized medicine this weekend he'd still be on Medicare or some variation of it. Everybody else would be on some sort of national health insurance program. Which would work just like any other insurance program. Kind of like Allstate's entitlement program I've been paying into for 30 accident-free years to pay for repairs to "Paul"'s freaking car. Learn to drive, "Paul"!
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ocfootballfan
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby ocfootballfan » Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:11 pm

Luca.....being as skilled as you are as a provider of healthcare and being as disenfranchised as you are with the payers of that system, why don't you become a concierge type provider like so many of your associates have done? No need to worry about any government payers.

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Parrotpaul » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:06 pm

Luca...Yep, I pay into Medicaid, and I also pay around another 10K a year for my wife, my companion plan, and a lousy dental plan.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

Luca
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Re: Obamacare 2017

Postby Luca » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:46 pm

John Q. Public wrote:........national health insurance program. Which would work just like any other insurance program.


A "national health plan" would be just another entitlement program. A rose is a rose, JQ.

It's socialized medicine however you choose to name it. And it most definitely would not work just like any other insurance program. Trust me, I've worked with both........Luca

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