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Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:45 pm
by SoulPatrol
So what's your point? Do you think trickle down economics are the problem? I'd like to keep the discussion on track here.
If you think I'm a mindless follower of a political party and you can rattle me by denigrating Republican ideology, you couldn't be farther off the mark.
So, why do you think there is such high poverty in California?
If you haven't been accosted by a dozen aggressive panhandlers every ten minutes while walking in SF or LA recently, you're in for a treat.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:47 pm
by SoulPatrol
John Q. Public wrote:The bullet train is becoming a dumberer idea by the day, but our poverty rate has almost nothing to do with our tax or political situation. Same as all those Midwestern red states' situations don't.
I disagree and I'll be happy to share my views but I'd like to know what you attribute California's high poverty rate to.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:25 pm
by Professor Fate
Those people on the riverbed have been there for years. So, tell me who in California had trickle down economic policies. On the federal level, I don't think Obama did.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:28 pm
by Professor Fate
John Q. Public wrote: our poverty rate has almost nothing to do with our tax or political situation.
Every unskilled illegal alien who comes into California either is unemployed, or takes a job that an unemployed citizen could be getting.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:36 pm
by John Q. Public
You know better than that.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:30 am
by Wabash
Professor Fate wrote: Every unskilled illegal alien who comes into California either is unemployed, or takes a job that an unemployed citizen could be getting.
I've yet to see lines of citizens lining up to get jobs picking strawberries. What a ridiculous statement.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:48 am
by Wabash
SoulPatrol wrote: So what's your point? Do you think trickle down economics are the problem? I'd like to keep the discussion on track here.
It has only been beneficial to a very few.

Let me throw this out.

During the post WW II era (1945-1980) the top marginal tax rate (the so called 1%) was between 75% - 90%. The U.S. was the dominant economic, manufacturing, and military power in the world. Experiencing significant annual growth in GDP, while being a creditor nation. Since 1980 the top marginal tax rate has ranged from 28% - 70%. The U.S. has seen diminished growth in GDP and has become a debtor nation. During the post years (1945-1980) the U.S. also saw an expanding middle class. Since 1980 that demographic has seen its ranks diminish along with wage stagnation and spending power shrink proportionally.

One can argue about the fairness of higher tax rates for the 1%ers. What is not debatable is whether or not we as a society were better off.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:14 am
by Wabash
SoulPatrol wrote: Unemployment rates are based on the amount of people collecting unemployment benefits.
Here you go.

California gains 52,700 jobs, and unemployment falls to 4.3%
The Golden State has now gained jobs for four straight months, after several months of alternating job losses and gains. November’s figures were upwardly revised to a growth of 53,700 jobs from 47,400, and the unemployment rate set a new record low for a survey that started in 1976, when the method for collecting the unemployment rate changed.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:45 pm
by SoulPatrol
Again, those figures are based on how many people are claiming unemployment benefits and completely ignores those who are not or whose benefits have run out.

Also, employment always goes up in November and December due to temporaey holiday jobs. Politicians love to take credit for employment gains every winter.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:58 pm
by SoulPatrol
Wabash wrote:It has only been beneficial to a very few.

Let me throw this out.

During the post WW II era (1945-1980) the top marginal tax rate (the so called 1%) was between 75% - 90%. The U.S. was the dominant economic, manufacturing, and military power in the world. Experiencing significant annual growth in GDP, while being a creditor nation. Since 1980 the top marginal tax rate has ranged from 28% - 70%. The U.S. has seen diminished growth in GDP and has become a debtor nation. During the post years (1945-1980) the U.S. also saw an expanding middle class. Since 1980 that demographic has seen its ranks diminish along with wage stagnation and spending power shrink proportionally.

One can argue about the fairness of higher tax rates for the 1%ers. What is not debatable is whether or not we as a society were better off.
Why isnt it debatable? Many factors contribute to the state of the economy, not just the contributions of the "1%".
Are you saying that taxing anybody up to 90% is reasonable? Under those circumstances, any sane person would move his/her business to someplace else rather than give up that much.
Rather than punish someone for being successful, maybe it would make sense to eliminate write offs completely and apply the same tax percentage rate across the board.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:18 pm
by SoulPatrol
Professor Fate wrote:Those people on the riverbed have been there for years. So, tell me who in California had trickle down economic policies. On the federal level, I don't think Obama did.
You make an excellent point.
This is a prime example of trickle down social welfare.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:26 pm
by Wabash
SoulPatrol wrote: Are you saying that taxing anybody up to 90% is reasonable?
Nope. Just those in the 1%.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:43 pm
by SoulPatrol
So if I earn a billion dollars, you think I should cough up 900 million to the 'capable' hands of politicians and bureaucrats?

That may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. More governmental intervention is never the answer.

Why is it that you think financial success should be punished?

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:52 pm
by SoulPatrol
I learned what it means to kill the goose that lays the golden egg in 3rd grade.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:37 am
by Wabash
Nope. Only 90% of the top marginal tax rate. You must not understand what that means.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:10 am
by MDDad
Maybe he doesn't, but I do. If the top marginal tax rate kicks in at $500,000, as it will be in 2018, and the top marginal rate is 90%:

A person with $1 million in normal taxable income would pay $599,690 in federal income taxes, or 60.0%.

A person with $5 million in normal taxable income would pay $4,199,690 in federal income taxes, or 89.0%.

A person with $1 billion in normal taxable income would pay $899,699,690 in federal income taxs, or 89.97%. That's about as close to 90% as you can get, and SoulPatrol's example is correct.

A person with a degree in economics should know that.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:29 am
by Wabash
I didn't know that he has a degree in Econ.

How many Americas have earnings at that level?

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:36 am
by John Q. Public
An Econ grad should also know that almost nobody would have to pay it. And it would be incredibly harmful to the businesses and employees of the handful who would.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 pm
by Wabash
We had a 90% tax rate for many years. Economic growth was higher than it is now.

Re: Fiat Chrysler Moving Ram Plant from Mexico to Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 pm
by John Q. Public
We also all rode horses at one time and we all did ok. A lot's changed in the last 60 years. What worked in 1958 wouldn't work at all, now.