Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Bick
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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Bick » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:28 am

Fordama wrote:Source of the post It's amazing that people are still spouting trickle down economics after decades of its failure.


Maybe a lunchtime discussion w/ Mr. Carlson would be useful? You should share your keen economic insight with him.



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Wabash
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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:31 am

Bick wrote:Source of the post Can you explain it?

Thank you for posting that.

The graph shows that Obama inherited a $1T deficit and it declined during his administration.

Bick wrote:Source of the post Maybe a lunchtime discussion w/ Mr. Carlson would be useful?

Who is Mr. Carlson?
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 am

An interesting opinion.

Trump Isn’t to Thank for the Stock Market’s Boom, Barclays Says

The U.S. equity market’s “Trump rally” actually has its roots in the period before the 2016 presidential election and is due to economic factors, such as oil’s recovery and looser policy in China, according to Barclays. The S&P 500 Index rose to multiple records in January, following a 19 percent jump last year.

“Buoyant capital markets primarily reflect economic forces already in motion rather than any change of political personnel,” William Hobbs, head of investment strategy at Barclays’ wealth management unit in London, said in a blog post. “The ongoing rally in global stocks rests primarily on the improving economic backdrop, rather than the so-called ‘Trump Rally.’”

Had Trump been the primary reason for last year’s stock-market gains, equity returns would have been driven by valuation expansion, since the Senate didn’t pass the tax overhaul until December, Barclays said. Instead, the bank’s calculations show that valuation growth accounted for less than a third of the MSCI USA’s total returns, which were dominated by rising corporate earnings.


Those pesky Brits.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:46 am

Bick wrote:Source of the post I don't know how to read graphs. Can you explain it?

It says that Obama inherited a trillion dollar deficit and slowly reduced it.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Fordama » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:53 am

Bick wrote:You mean like this? As Ford pointed out, I don't know how to read graphs. Can you explain it?

Image

So now you don't understand the difference between the deficit and debt, either?

By the way, they're going to run out of red ink on that graph as the effects of the tax cuts hit.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:14 am

Bick wrote:Source of the post What date did the Obama economy start, and what date does it end?

Let's use the first date of his first budget as a starting point. Oct. 1, 2009.
Let's use the last day of his last budget as an end point. Sep. 30, 2017.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:24 am

Or we could be realistic and say that the effects of Roosevelt's through Obama's policies are still being felt. Trump's, not so much yet. Except maybe on the stock market and the dollar.
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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Bick » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Wabash wrote:Source of the post Let's use the first date of his first budget as a starting point. Oct. 1, 2009.
Let's use the last day of his last budget as an end point. Sep. 30, 2017.


OK. Would this chart be a fair assessment?

Image

Actually, I think this one is better and can be fairly assessed based on your timeline...agreed?

Image

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Fordama » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:15 pm

I can. The 2008 and2009 bars belong to the Bush Administration's timeline. The economic crash did not start while Obama was in office.

The righties always forget what Obama inherited. They pretend that Trump started in the same place that Obama did.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Bick » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:31 pm

OK, so 2002-09 is Bush, 2010-2017 is Obama, 2018-xx is Trump?

I'm fine with that. Just looking to see which did best. Don't care who as much as I care why. I'll leave the sniveling to the political types.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Fordama » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Sure, cut off Obama's at the end. That's the ticket.

Pretty much every economic trend line over the last several years up through this year looks the same. Nothing amazing has happened since Trump became President. Like the rest of his life, he was born on 3rd base and is claiming that he hit a home run.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:26 pm

Bick wrote:OK. Would this chart be a fair assessment?


Not really. A better comparison would have been to go back to 1933. FDR's first year in office. Obama inherited an economy that was in full collapse mode similar to FDR. Truman (like Trump) had the benefit of inheriting an economy(s) that were back on track after signicant depressions/recessions.

Keep in mind FDR had one other thing. He enjoyed congressional majorities from his party during his entire administration. Obama did not.

Bick wrote:Actually, I think this one is better and can be fairly assessed based on your timeline...agreed?


Obama's first budget didn't kick in till the last quarter of 2009. So that chart is pretty good. Keeping in mind that economies collapse quickly they take years to rebuild. The US is a consumption based economy. Typically about 70%. When the economy collapses individuals are unlikely to buy anything beyond the bare essentials until they are secure in their revenue streams.

Bill Clinton summed up the GOP's complaints best during his speech at the 2012 DNC.

"We left him a total mess. He hasn’t cleaned it up fast enough."
Last edited by Wabash on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby MDDad » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:31 pm

Honest to God, never in my life have I been in another environment like this forum, where grown men spend so much time and energy whining about who gets the credit and who gets the blame for everything under the sun. It's a goddamn waste, and concentrating on credit and blame rather than solutions and improvements is probably one of the reasons we're in the goddamn mess we're in.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:33 pm

The solutions are simple. They just don't stand a chance of being adopted by those who currently control the government.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:34 pm

A friend of mine just put this on his FB wall.: White House statement on the market's 1175-point plunge:

+ Donald Trump never met Dow Jones.
+ Donald Trump has never done business with Dow Jones.
+ Dow Jones was just a low-level campaign volunteer who never got the coffee orders correct.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby MDDad » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:38 pm

Wabash wrote:The solutions are simple. They just don't stand a chance of being adopted by those who currently control the government.


No, the solutions are not simple, because there are trade-offs and downsides to every policy decision. You believe they are because you're a hopeless ideologue who never makes the effort to think beyond his pat, comfortable, left-wing nutjob positions.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:43 pm

If these circumstances were historically unique I would agree with you. They are not.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:00 pm

MDDad wrote:Source of the post It's a goddamn waste, and concentrating on credit and blame rather than solutions and improvements is probably one of the reasons we're in the goddamn mess we're in.

You forget that "some of us" :roll: aren't capable of thinking in terms of solutions and improvements.
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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Bick » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 am

MDDad wrote:Honest to God, never in my life have I been in another environment like this forum, where grown men spend so much time and energy whining about who gets the credit and who gets the blame for everything under the sun. It's a goddamn waste, and concentrating on credit and blame rather than solutions and improvements is probably one of the reasons we're in the goddamn mess we're in.


You're in the wrong forum if you're looking for any semblance of concurrence that someone associated with the GOP is capable of making a positive contribution to the US.

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Re: Wages Rise and 200,000 Jobs Added

Postby Wabash » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:45 am

I'll be the first to admit Trump has made several positive contributions to the US. There were also times I was disappointed in Obama.

I'm doubting very few GOP types on this board will admit to any of the many good things Obama did during his administration.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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