‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Bick
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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Bick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:21 pm

If you look at the history of how well this poker player has done, it would be hard to legitimately say he's lost more than he's won. Let's just say I'd rather bankroll a guy that's won more than he's lost, than a guy that's never played. You disagree?

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by John Q. Public » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:45 pm

Donald's done very well for himself and a small circle of executives. He's bankrupted suppliers and contractors as well as some of his own businesses. He's in the development, hotel and golf course businesses. He has no experience in trade, manufacturing, selling products or employing large numbers of people and he's had little exposure to anything that would be greatly affected by tariffs on an ongoing basis. I'd rather bankroll somebody who understands the game.
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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Wabash » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:52 pm

Bick wrote:QR_BBPOST If we're sticking with the poker analogy, the blinds keep getting raised, and the stacks are shrinking. Eventually, your stack is so short, you can't play a hand.
Is there a game in poker where one player is allowed to borrow from the bank. And then fold and walk away with all the winnings? Letting the other players pay up?

What's it called?
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Fordama » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:22 pm

Bick wrote:If you look at the history of how well this poker player has done, it would be hard to legitimately say he's lost more than he's won.
Not so sure. Let's see the tax returns.

We can't afford to lose big one time. Oh sure, the wealthy can pay, but the working class will take it hard. WalMart won't be cheap any longer.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by John Q. Public » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:01 pm

The way Don telegraphed his Chief of Staff fiasco, I think I'd bankroll most anyone before him.

Anybody got Kanye's number? Omarosa? Rodman?
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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Bick » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:15 am

Fordama wrote:Not so sure. Let's see the tax returns.

We can't afford to lose big one time. Oh sure, the wealthy can pay, but the working class will take it hard. WalMart won't be cheap any longer.
He's not required to disclose his tax returns, and if I'm in his shoes, I wouldn't either. But here's his 2005 return. Note he paid over $38 million - even with his $100 million loss that year. That's more than 7 times what his predecessor paid over the next 10 years combined. As a private businessman, he employs over 22,000. Obama's sole business was that of an author - employing no one - with the sole negotiating activity being that of his own royalty deal.

You're going to have a hard time arguing with any credibility he's lost more than he's won.

http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presretur ... 005tax.pdf

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Fordama » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:31 am

No, but it's an easy bet that he's lost enough times to make him a poor bet for the nation. It's hard to lose when you start out with four hundred million dollars, but he's managed to do it more than once.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by MDDad » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:39 am

It's hard to lose when you start out with four hundred million dollars...
No, it's not. Entertainment celebrities and professional sports stars do it fairly regularly.

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Bick » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:52 am

Ford - I believe your thoughts speak directly into the key differences between liberals and conservatives when it comes to economics.

My sense is that liberal thinking is under the impression failure can be avoided by controlling outcomes thru regulations, where conservatives believe that market forces will determine the outcomes of risk and reward, and that failure is actually necessary to achieve real growth.

Fortunately, conservative thinking was the prevailing economic force some 50 years ago, or the only Col Sanders we would know would be wearing eagles on their caps.

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Vilepagan » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:04 am

Bick wrote:QR_BBPOST My sense is that liberal thinking is under the impression failure can be avoided by controlling outcomes thru regulations...
My sense is that you have no idea how liberals think. I also sense that there would be little intelligent thought that you would attribute to liberals.

He're some food for thought. Liberals don't always agree with one another. Liberals are not communists, or anarchists, or anti-capitalist, although some liberals might be some of those things. You aren't more intelligent than liberals. Your thoughts and beliefs are not superior to those held by liberals.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Bick » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:12 am

If you don't have anything meaningful to add to this discussion, please run along and moderate something.

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Vilepagan » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:38 am

Well, I felt compelled to address what you wrote...which was itself not very meaningful. Perhaps if you avoided making up nonsense about what liberals think...
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Wabash » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:53 am

MDDad wrote:QR_BBPOST No, it's not. Entertainment celebrities and professional sports stars do it fairly regularly.
Which celebrity or pro athlete inherited $400M in their early 20's and proceeded to lose it?
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:54 am

Liberals judge the success of a business on things besides the CEO making a profit on its bankruptcy.
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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Bick » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:26 pm

Well thank you all for your attempt to be witty.

Liberal economic platform may or may not be nonsense, but I certainly didn't make it up. I just don't happen to agree with it.

OK with you if Ford and I continue the discussion?

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:36 pm

You might not have made it up but you sure guzzled the Kool-Aid on it. The Fortune 500 is filled with "Liberal" businesses. It wouldn't even surprise me if it were over half, depending on whose standard you use.
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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Fordama » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 pm

Bick wrote: My sense is that liberal thinking is under the impression failure can be avoided by controlling outcomes thru regulations, where conservatives believe that market forces will determine the outcomes of risk and reward, and that failure is actually necessary to achieve real growth.
No, I'd rather not live in a third world country where everything is determined by money and market forces. Somalia is not an attractive alternative to modern Western democracy, thank you. Where the power of the wealthy is restrained and the economy works for as many people as possible.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Fordama » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:23 pm

And, by the way, tariffs are a example of strong government control of the economy. Historically conservatives have not been so keen on them. At least not until Trump started espousing them.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by MDDad » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:01 pm

Fordama wrote:And, by the way, tariffs are a example of strong government control of the economy. Historically conservatives have not been so keen on them. At least not until Trump started espousing them.
And, by the way, tariffs are an example of strong government control of the economy. Historically liberals have been pretty keen on that. At least until Trump started doing it.

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Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Post by Bick » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:02 pm

Fordama wrote:QR_BBPOST No, I'd rather not live in a third world country where everything is determined by money and market forces. Somalia is not an attractive alternative to modern Western democracy, thank you.
I can't say with any certainty, but I believe Somalia might have had some issues with corruption. Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Cuba, USSR, etc are / were OK?

I think we can agree that this country is not entirely capitalistic or socialistic. The issue is, should we move towards a more socialistic, or more capitalistic society. I cast my lot with the accountability that comes with more of a free-market economy, than I do with the idea that there is a small group of people that would attempt to control the economic outcomes.
Fordama wrote:QR_BBPOST And, by the way, tariffs are a example of strong government control of the economy. Historically conservatives have not been so keen on them. At least not until Trump started espousing them.
Finally, back to the topic. I don't believe conservatives are supportive of long term tariffs - I know I'm not. Back to the poker analogy, I think this tactic is intended as a negotiation ploy to make the existing tariffs from other countries on our products less one-sided. Do you think this is a worthwhile objective?

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