California Regulations

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tLIB
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California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:48 pm

Trog mentioned this in another thread and I didn't want to divert the thread, so ....

As per the CA regulation - I would like to see a list of them that you believe should be repealed. That would be a good start. I always hear Republicans talk about it but then they rarely do much when elected Governor. What regs? Workers Comp? Overtime Pay?

Has anyone contacted their Assembly person or State Senator to get the ball rolling on this?

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tLIB
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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:49 pm

Here is Trog's post:

State regulations cost $493 billion, 3.8 million jobs
September 23rd, 2009, 6:00 am · 17 Comments · posted by Jan Norman, small-business columnist
The total cost of state regulations on businesses is $493 billion and 3.8 million jobs according to the first-of-its kind study.
That’s an average of $134,122 per California business, $13,801 per household and $4,685 per resident each year.

The California report is significant, according to the Governor’s Office of Small Business Advocate, because small businesses are 98% of the state’s enterprises and provide 52% of the jobs.

The study parallels a 2005 federal report on business regulations commissioned by the Office of Advocacy within the U.S. Small Business Administration.That report concluded that federal regulations cost $7,647 per employee for businesses with fewer than 20 employees.

This state report is based on data used by Forbes magazine’s annual ranking of state for business friendliness. It does not single out specific regulations that drive up costs.

Among the California conclusions:

•The total cost ($493 billion) is almost 5 times the state’s general fund budget and a third of the state’s gross product.
•The 3.8 million jobs lost equals 1/10th of California’s population. California has about 14 million jobs, down 1 million from the peak in July 2007.
•The total cost breakdown is $266.5 billion in direct costs of various regulations, $210.5 billion lost labor income and $16 billion in business taxes the state would get without the regulations
The study was done by Sanjay Varshney, dean of business administration, and Dennis Tootelian, director of the Center for Small Business at California State University, Sacramento.

The report was mandated by a 2006 law that set a release date of Oct. 1, 2008. The governor’s office didn’t say why the report is almost a year late. However, it’s clear the research was done by the deadline, referring to 2007 data from the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council, has since released newer data (which wouldn’t change this report’s outcome).

Click here to read the SBE Council’s 2008 Small Business Survival Index that ranks California 49th among the states in business friendliness.

“This study sheds light on the realities of regulations on small business in California,” said Marty Keller, the governor’s small business advocate.

The California office of the National Federation of Independent Business was more blunt. “This study validates what NFIB and small business has been saying all along, that small businesses face insurmountable costs and disincentives to grow in our state when it comes to regulations,” said state Executive Director John Kabateck. “We understand that some regulation is needed to have a fair and balanced market, but there needs to be a reality check…

“California needs a functioning system of evaluating the cost of regulations before they go into effect, and the Legislature would be well served to analyze the compliance cost of proposed laws before they mandate businesses to comply.”

Gino DiCaro of the California Manufacturers & Technology Association, added, “Over the past few years of California’s manufacturing and economic decline, the state’s regulatory environment has been pinpointed as a primary reason for the high costs and unpredictability that makes the state an uncompetitive place to do business - small or large. One producer of construction aggregates in the state, Vulcan Materials, testified in an Assembly Jobs Committee hearing in June that it ‘is not uncommon for the permitting process to involve millions of dollars and in some cases to take as long as 10 years to secure the necessary permits, many of which address duplicative regulatory aspects.’”

Click here to read the entire report, “Cost of State Regulations on California Small Businesses.”

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Re: California Regulations

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:25 pm

tLIB wrote:One producer of construction aggregates in the state, Vulcan Materials, testified in an Assembly Jobs Committee hearing in June that it ‘is not uncommon for the permitting process to involve millions of dollars and in some cases to take as long as 10 years to secure the necessary permits, many of which address duplicative regulatory aspects.’”
In all fairness, "construction aggregates" = gravel. Vulcan Materials owns what looks like a partial strip mine on the side of a mountain in an area that you'd think was a part of the Angeles National Forest but apparently isn't. Ten years is a long time, but I'm not surprised their permitting process takes a long time.
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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:53 pm

"National" Forest? They probably have to jump through Federal and State environmental reports. Then perhaps the right of ways or easements for ingress and egress have to be established - perhaps through private property... etc etc...

There are county road projects (even just widening) that take years to complete because the Feds say that there are endangered species. The environmental impact reports are done first. Then after all is nailed down, the county will have to purchase property, secure easements or take property owners through an eminent domain process... Then after all of that is finished, they can put the road on the calendar to start work...

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Re: California Regulations

Post by kramer » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:28 am

tLIB wrote:Trog mentioned this in another thread and I didn't want to divert the thread, so ....

As per the CA regulation - I would like to see a list of them that you believe should be repealed. That would be a good start. I always hear Republicans talk about it but then they rarely do much when elected Governor. What regs? Workers Comp? Overtime Pay?
Or, you and the other liberals on this board could list all of the important regulations that you think are good...
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: California Regulations

Post by Fordama » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:53 am

kramer wrote:
Or, you and the other liberals on this board could list all of the important regulations that you think are good...
I'm buying a house right now. It needs work. I'm glad that there are a series of regulations regarding inspection and suitability of construction.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:33 am

Duplicate.
Last edited by tLIB on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:10 pm

kramer wrote:
Or, you and the other liberals on this board could list all of the important regulations that you think are good...
Liberals like you can't even respond to this, huh? I mention workers comp. I mention overtime pay. What is your response? Let's talk about "good" regulations.

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Re: California Regulations

Post by kramer » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:15 pm

tLIB wrote:
Liberals like you can't even respond to this, huh?
??? You lost me with this comment.
tLIB wrote: I mention workers comp. I mention overtime pay. What is your response? Let's talk about "good" regulations.

Well you've taken the position that you like regulations. So why don't you and the other liberals here explain why you like them, what good have specific ones done, why do you guys think we need more, should every aspect of our life be regulated, etc.? There's no reason this discussion can be done taking the pro-regulation point of view.

For the record, I'm fine with reasonable regulations, but I would never want to sacrifice the freedom and liberty I have for the sake of having a big mommy government guiding and protecting me from my choices. But if you don't want to say what you like, I came up with a few scenarios for you..

I believe the higher the minimum wage, the more attractive it makes offshore labor. And it's a fact that environmental regulations tend to push jobs offshore (or close companies or take a particular product off the market). Tougher wage and environmental regulations would give fewer people higher wages and arguably make the environment cleaner. Do you support regulating higher minimum wages and tougher environmental laws? Why not regulate the minimum wage to $45.00/hr? This would end poverty, right?

Another area is wether the government should dictate our diets. There's no denying that if the government banned bad foods and made us eat nothing but veggies and fruits and controlled how many calories we consumed everyday, people would lose weight and their health would improve. So why aren't they doing this? Do you support it?

Would you support tougher regulations on cars such that all cars were required to we have a GPS system installed so that it could tell which road we were on and automatically limit our speed to that road's speed limit? (BTW, I predict this is coming our way).

Should knives be locked up in special locking metal knife holders that have special electronic fingerprint recognition locks? If this were the case, fewer people would die from stabbings. Do you support this?

And finally, if alcohol was banned, there would be far far less murders, rapes, assaults, car accidents. It would save the country billions of dollars per year in costs. Do you support regulating big alcohol out of business?

If I had a list of all of the regulations (both CA and federal, the argument is the same), I'm sure I could make the case for repealing or weakening a bunch of them.

And as far as Republican governors not doing much, when was the last time CA had a Republican majority of congressmen and senators?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

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Re: California Regulations

Post by Troglodyte » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:34 pm

tLIB wrote:Trog mentioned this in another thread and I didn't want to divert the thread, so ....

As per the CA regulation - I would like to see a list of them that you believe should be repealed. That would be a good start. I always hear Republicans talk about it but then they rarely do much when elected Governor. What regs? Workers Comp? Overtime Pay?

Has anyone contacted their Assembly person or State Senator to get the ball rolling on this?
We could start with the usual election year battle cry "Increase minimum wage". Sacramento seems to think it has to go a step further than national wage levels. Then we could look at mandatory family sick pay and leave, child care regulations, and mandatory add ons to the health insurance companies have to offer..
I don't suffer from any mental illnesses.. I enjoy them..

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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:45 pm

kramer wrote: Well you've taken the position that you like regulations.
Where did I say that? Give me a quote.

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Re: California Regulations

Post by kramer » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:50 pm

tLIB wrote:
Where did I say that? Give me a quote.

From this:
"As per the CA regulation - I would like to see a list of them that you believe should be repealed. That would be a good start. I always hear Republicans talk about it but then they rarely do much when elected Governor. What regs? Workers Comp? Overtime Pay? "

This sounds to me like you're taking the pro-regulation position. And since you seemed to have switched to the democratic party, well 1+1=2. Am I wrong?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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tLIB
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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:52 pm

Troglodyte wrote: We could start with the usual election year battle cry "Increase minimum wage". Sacramento seems to think it has to go a step further than national wage levels. Then we could look at mandatory family sick pay and leave, child care regulations, and mandatory add ons to the health insurance companies have to offer..
I hear employers complain most about workers comp.

I think it is a mistake to force employers to pay unemployment insurance. This is something that can be paid for by the employee.

On the Federal Level, I would love to see an end to withholding taxes. People should pay their own taxes - but in my economic plan thread I advocate getting rid of all taxes along with the Federal Reserve (I don't mean to shift this topic though :lol: )

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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:54 pm

kramer wrote:

From this:
"As per the CA regulation - I would like to see a list of them that you believe should be repealed. That would be a good start. I always hear Republicans talk about it but then they rarely do much when elected Governor. What regs? Workers Comp? Overtime Pay? "

This sounds to me like you're taking the pro-regulation position. And since you seemed to have switched to the democratic party, well 1+1=2. Am I wrong?
Where did I say I liked Regulations? I said Republican rarely do anything about them.

OK, here is a regulation I am in favor of. I like the idea of people pulling over when fire trucks go by. Argue against that one.

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tLIB
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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:57 pm

BTW, I switched to the Republican Party so I could vote for Ron Paul in the primary. Now that I am a Republican I will be more critical of them.

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Re: California Regulations

Post by kramer » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:06 pm

tLIB wrote:
Where did I say I liked Regulations?
You didn't, What you said that I quoted a few posts back sounds to me like you like them.
tLIB wrote:OK, here is a regulation I am in favor of. I like the idea of people pulling over when fire trucks go by. Argue against that one.
I like it too as I see it as a reasonable regulation. I'm not against reasonable regulations.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:23 pm

kramer wrote:
You didn't, What you said that I quoted a few posts back sounds to me like you like them.
Well, next time try not to read so much into it. Read what I say, not what you want to see. :hitonhead:
kramer wrote:

I like it too as I see it as a reasonable regulation. I'm not against reasonable regulations.
What about the fire departments. Should they become private?

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Re: California Regulations

Post by kramer » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:42 pm

tLIB wrote:
Well, next time try not to read so much into it. Read what I say, not what you want to see.
Sorry but that post of yours sounds to me like you are taking the pro-reg side. And you've been hammering the Republican party for the last 3 or so years, you're okay with government healthcare, you think the government has no blame for this economic mess--you sound like a democrat.

So, what position do you take with regulations? Pro regulations, pro-reasonable regulations, very little regulations, no regulations?
tLIB wrote:What about the fire departments. Should they become private?
"Should?" Don't know. But l don't see why they wouldn't work?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: California Regulations

Post by tLIB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:58 pm

I have had various businesses for the past 25 years or so. I am very much against most regulations on business. As per your comment on government run health care - the only thing I advocated was a public option that can prevent people from losing their homes and everything they have if an insurance company cancels them or they lose their job and insurance. A public option is NOT a regulation of course, BUT others who you might consider "conservative" here have advocated regulations forcing insurers to take people with pre-existing conditions. Many Republicans like that idea. I disagree with my Republican friends on that.

As per our ongoing CRA debate - I don't think it caused the meltdown. I think foolish executives in Wall Street did that. They screwed up. I was against TARP, which many Republicans in Congress voted for. They shouldn't have. And yes, I am more critical of Republicans.

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Re: California Regulations

Post by kramer » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:35 pm

tLIB wrote:
As per our ongoing CRA debate - I don't think it caused the meltdown. I think foolish executives in Wall Street did that. They screwed up.
The genesis of the problem was the deterioration of mortgage lending standards according to a house hearing.

Why did they deteriorate?

The Federal Reserve. The came out with the "Closing the Gap" paper that gave banks ways to lower their lending standards so that more people with bad credit could get homes.

How banks can be blamed for this (actually, how you can not also blame government) when the Federal Reserve gave them the ways to lower their standards is beyond me. If you take into account that fannie and freddie were buying up a large chunk of these loans (to meet their low income housing goals) which resulted in banks getting more capital to make more loans, it's clear that government shares blame for this mess.

tLIB wrote:And yes, I am more critical of Republicans.
Why?

Our current debt is approaching 70 trillion dollars (if you include the unfunded mandates coming up) of which most of this is from social programs that democrats pushed for and passed. According to CBO reports, "within ten years, we are going to have to borrow just to pay for the interest."

GM and Chrysler had to be bailed out mainly because of unions.

The great society programs screwed up black families because before them, there were a higher percentage of black families that were complete than white families, after these programs came, the number of dysfunctional black families increased higher than white dysfunctional families.

They've screwed up a lot of things.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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