Any more transfers to speak about?

NotDonaldBren
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by NotDonaldBren » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:40 pm

Sweetness34 wrote: Thank You NotDonaldBren.. I was about to say exactly what you just posted...
Probably good you didn't. As others have noted, on certain HS treads here, you can't make simple statements or point out misconceptions like that without having to deal with some of these internet battle-hardened trolls and three-account clowns that crave attention. All part of the experience.

I wonder if we'll see these schools' rosters settle before ... July?? Still at least 2-3 known transfers within the TL alone that haven't been officially made or announced. Tougher to get reliable information of certain moves being "finalized" with school being out, unless the kids do a Lebron-like announcement in the media like the McKibbins.

NotDonaldBren
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by NotDonaldBren » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:52 pm

SK80 wrote: Sondheimer on a roll......
Its funny that Sondy really thinks no one notices that "CIF-SS Truths" is his burner account. Particularly since that burner account spends whatever time it isnt criticizing certain (private) schools by praising Sondy's alma mater Loyola HS as a bastion of purity. I wonder if the LA Times would fire him upon discovery, ala Colangelo with the Sixers. He might go full Colangelo and blame it on his wife/partner.

BBB
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by BBB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:44 am

Enough with the grassy knoll theories conspiracy guy. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a “burner account.” Hard for a narcissistic attention grabber to realize how some people actually disagree with you. And quit playing the victim card (especially when you’re the biggest culprit of the exact same criticisms you levied in your second to last post above)....

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by SK80 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:36 am

Bick wrote:DTW - to expand on your suggestion, I think it's spot on directionally. For those schools that want to do the transfer bit, I say knock yourself out...more power to you. But once you exceed 5 xfers in a year, you won't be playing for a CIF title.
A "Transfer Cap"!
"don't try to tell people what I think when they can read what I actually said and I won't return the favor, okay?" ~ O. Bongo

hit the lights
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by hit the lights » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:32 am

It looks like CIF is open to let MD create another all star team to compete vs the IMG showdown. This is for the WEST cry? As for La Habra and there players getting snatched up in here, Mazzotta is hiding his players, WRONG!
There's the door :L: I'm sure most expected Woullard to bounce since thats been his way, like it is for most these days.
Its too bad, because the kid was a good kid, alot of the kids gravitated to his high energy. But, did he do his stats and film a favor? It looks like he is still taking unofficial visits to schools and doing camps, but not getting those big time offers, like JOJO is getting. Harvard my guy, Harvard! As for Kobah, i thought he lived in Brea? Now Orange? For sure, never a La Habra resident. Since CIF doesnt do house calls anymore, i guess we will never know, Like OJ?
Phillips, La Habra's premier player Alabama offered, among others, as of now, this is hersay about him leaving. The Phillips family is a good family and hard working. With all of Clarks offers, what would benefit him or his stock to head back to Bosco OR anywhere else? He is the face of La Habra football, he will get to show his talents vs some of the best receivers in high school football this year. Calabasas- Johnny Wilson and Pittman, along with
Uplands, and Diamond Ranch wr, Darren Jones. Then he will be able to go against Mission Viejo WR, JoJo Forrest.
All the way up at LH, VS if you go back to Bosco and end up being like Devon Cooley and dissapearing from the lineup.
Why did Clark and family choose to leave Bosco in the first place? Dont make the same mistake twice. Promises, promises. Question, how does a coach get his team ready to play when you have a revolving door of kids in and kids out? Here comes week one, and half my team has been snatched up, next guy up. lol
What a way to go!

Red
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by Red » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:48 am

Where were all these type of discussions when MV, OLU, BOSCO, and CC were getting 10 to 20 transfers per season? I will tell you....As long as MD wasn't winning CIF championships nobody cared. :giggle: BTW, J Serra is over 15 transfers, why are they getting away with it? And Gollum (Eric S), maybe you should concentrate on LA County schools.
Liberalism is like an out-of-control 5 year old at McDonalds. All the talking to and admonishment won't make a difference. They have no concept of right or wrong, they are nothing more than narcissists.

hit the lights
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by hit the lights » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:52 am

How did Oaks Christian do it last year? Top rated QB, Corral left for Poly with offers, Pitmann off to Calabasas with offers, etc..., and Oaks ends up winning CIF title AND GOING TO STATE game. That shows a staff who took control of the situation and a team that wanted to prove something to the me guys. Some have rings and some have memories. But Oaks and Karma was a BEEOCH last year.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by MDDad » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:34 am

NotDonaldBren wrote:...praising Sondy's alma mater Loyola HS as a bastion of purity.
There are no more "bastions of purity". The Loyola varsity football team had five transfers last season.

dont be that guy
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by dont be that guy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:49 am

hit the lights wrote:How did Oaks Christian do it last year? Top rated QB, Corral left for Poly with offers, Pitmann off to Calabasas with offers, etc..., and Oaks ends up winning CIF title AND GOING TO STATE game. That shows a staff who took control of the situation and a team that wanted to prove something to the me guys. Some have rings and some have memories. But Oaks and Karma was a BEEOCH last year.
Oaks won CIF? Talk about flying under the radar.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by dont be that guy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:55 am

Red wrote:Where were all these type of discussions when MV, OLU, BOSCO, and CC were getting 10 to 20 transfers per season? I will tell you....As long as MD wasn't winning CIF championships nobody cared. :giggle: BTW, J Serra is over 15 transfers, why are they getting away with it? And Gollum (Eric S), maybe you should concentrate on LA County schools.
You’re kidding, right? MD boosters were the loudest complainers when Bosco went crazy with the transfers. There were threads upon threads about how Bosco was ruining football (all the while MD was doing the same thing). And do you know what MD fans are doing now to hide the embarrassment of their program “J Serra is over 15 transfers, why are they getting away with it?“

Hey, look over there. Shiny object. Don’t look at us.

SondyBurner
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by SondyBurner » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:02 am

MDDad wrote:There are no more "bastions of purity". The Loyola varsity football team had five transfers last season.
That's not correct. Loyola received two transfers in the 2017-2018 year that appeared on their varsity roster. Loyola received another transfer, Chad Bailey (from Crespi), but as a sophomore, he played on the sophomore team.

The two transfers on varsity? They were twins, Speed Fry VI and Kaiser Fry. They initially enrolled at Loyola as frosh, then transferred to Palos Verdes for their soph year. The family said in an LATimes article, "transferring out of Loyola was a big mistake."

Not exactly 4 and 5 star guys from across the country whom have zero interest in MD as a school or community, but only focusing completely on football as a vehicle to get more exposure and "get that money".

I guess, as a MD honk, having your school used in such a way is perfectly okay with you. Especially when it has been 19 years between Championships. Sometimes you have to take the disgusting with the delicious.

Dilly Dilly!

Bick
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by Bick » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:06 am

SK80 wrote: A "Transfer Cap"!
There are caps in all higher level competitive sports - NFL has salary cap, NCAA has caps on scholarships. CIF should set a threshold on the number of transfers.

Having some kids sit out 5 games is BS also.

Maybe first 5 xfers who move prior to the beginning of Spring football are eligible to play in the playoffs? Subsequent xfers are ineligible for playoffs. No more need for subjective application of the xfer rules. Doesn't overly penalize kids who move into an area. Causes less disruption to the teams whose kids leave.

What do you think?

BBB
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by BBB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 am

Red wrote:Where were all these type of discussions when MV, OLU, BOSCO, and CC were getting 10 to 20 transfers per season? I will tell you....As long as MD wasn't winning CIF championships nobody cared. :giggle: BTW, J Serra is over 15 transfers, why are they getting away with it? And Gollum (Eric S), maybe you should concentrate on LA County schools.
No group plays the victim better than MD fans. Surprised to see it from you Red.

People complained about other programs. But I don’t recall these other fan bases on here with anywhere near the same amount of posters and the same amount of posts.

But it goes beyond the amount MD posts. If the majority of your fan base comes on here with a holier than thou attitude, criticizes all other programs prior to Rollo recently selling his soul and taking the transfer game to an unprecedented level, bury your head in the sand rather than embrace the change in approach and then cry foul when the tables are flipped and you face the same criticism you once dished out, well then maybe you’d understand why you’re not going to receive much sympathy from everyone else.

In terms of Sondheimer, he does single out MD a lot but let’s stop the BS that he never calls out anyone else when he does, in fact, make note of other programs.

I know you were the only MD supporter to embrace the program’s new transfer approach and culture, and I have respect for that Red. But please don’t now jump on the woe is me MD bandwagon.

And for all you MD honks, name one school in California who has benefitted more than MD athletics when it comes to transfers? I can’t think of a single example. So naturally people are going to complain if they are against athletically motivated transfers in the first place. Calling out JSerra rather than looking inside is laughable.

It’s also funny to watch the pied piper of MD honks try to reconcile his many years of arguing against transfers and how MD was above it all only to now watch that blow up in his face time after time recently. You can feel the anguish in his posts as he tries so very hard to reconcile his years long of deeply rooted and well chronicled views and his die hard commitment to never, ever say a negative peep about the program with the new reality of transfer U. Just hope his head doesn’t explode.

Which brings me full circle. So what if MD has a never ending recruiting pipeline of elite transfers ready to fill existing gaps? Why limit it at all? It’s raised the quality of Orange County football overall. Elite talent dmfron the IE, LA and other parts of the country are now playing in OC, while former MD type kids play for other local schools. It’s a rising tide of talent. CdM is a great example of a program who benefited from all of the local talent that ended up there but would have been at MD otherwise.

Let’s just group those super teams with each other in their own league, sell the rights to televise the games, and create a national playoff system to determine a true national champion. Enough already with the sacrificial lamb of La Mirada on MD’s schedule and instead add DeLaSalle in their spot. Makes too much sense for us to continue to delay the inevitable.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by BBB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:08 am

Bick wrote:There are caps in all higher level competitive sports - NFL has salary cap, NCAA has caps on scholarships. CIF should set a threshold on the number of transfers.

Having some kids sit out 5 games is BS also.

Maybe first 5 xfers who move prior to the beginning of Spring football are eligible to play in the playoffs? Subsequent xfers are ineligible for playoffs. No more need for subjective application of the xfer rules. Doesn't overly penalize kids who move into an area. Causes less disruption to the teams whose kids leave.

What do you think?
You can’t limit the movement (especially if you treat kids with the same exact set of circumstances differently based just on their order of transfering into a new school). If I have to move into a new school district, and my son is the sixth transfer into his new school and he has to sit out the playoffs, I’m going to sue. No way is that fair or right.

And why would we reward a school or program for their inability to create a more competitive option for kids? Why reward mediocrity or, worse yet, a crappy coach and/or school? Plus where is the incentive to improve? Is there even a single good argument to restrict transfers?

Imagine if an entire industry colluded to restrict customers from moving vendors. We would be outraged. Yet schools get a free pass?

Open transfers with none of these silly so called restrictions that simply don’t work, are unfair, and waste a bunch of time and money.

BBB
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by BBB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:30 am

No need to hit the panic button HTL. The Phillips family is all in at LH. Woulard was not a team leader as his dad made them a me first situation. Similar to Oaks, the team is better off without them. The Dad did plenty of dumb stuff that negatively affected team chemistry for the past year. Based on what I saw at recent passing tournaments, they will be fine without him offensively. Fumamatu is the one who will hurt. You need more LBs from what I saw.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by Bick » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:35 am

BBB wrote: Is there even a single good argument to restrict transfers?
Is there a single good argument for the NFL / NBA / MLB to have a salary cap? How about restricting scholarships?

Enough with the moral outrage already. Those limits exist in nearly every competitive environment, and should be included in HS as well. If your son knows he's the 6th xfer, he can choose another school if playoffs is that important.

I'm as conservative as anyone when it comes to gaining a competitive advantage. But clearly, a lot of smart people understood that if you don't have a framework that mitigates the competitive advantages big market teams have by virtue of location, you'll lose interest in the whole league.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by BBB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:07 pm

You can’t sincerely compare HS sports to professional sports. There is an economic interest in professional sports (and college football) that doesn’t exist in HS (except for those $100 handshakes at MD). But let’s say they apply, they’re still not a sufficient argument for restructing transfers.

Even with your restrictions, there would still be a competitive imbalance, so that part of your argument falls flat. Look at the strong programs of the past when we had more transfer restrictions in place. Or look at New England, Golden State and Alabama in your examples. So even the organizations with these restrictions are highly ineffective.

And are you really saying you side with the NCAA of all organizations yet still call yourself conservative economically? Look how silly their rules have become; that’s what happens when you try to pound a round peg through a square hole.

You can’t have it both ways. If you support free markets, then you would side with open transfers. It’s the approach most closely aligned with true capitalism. You’re touting a more socialist, controlled market approach to deliver a more balanced outcome based on a monopoly in control with the CIF acting as the state.

I believe the added competition with an open transfer approach leads to better innovation and an improved quality of product. That has certainly been the case recently. Plus schools who suffer will be forced to make improvements or risk having to suffer more. To the victor goes the spoils.

You want to hold on to old ways of doing things in the hope of your faded ideal of the way things were will reappear, and/or your selfish desire to see your home school do well by restricting where your kids can go. Not going to happen. Tradition just for the sake of it is a weak stance to take IMHO. Still waiting to see a valid argument.

And yes MD honks, I was just kidding about the $100 handshake; we all know it’s a twenty spot.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by Bick » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:46 pm

BBB wrote: You can’t sincerely compare HS sports to professional sports. There is an economic interest in professional sports (and college football) that doesn’t exist in HS (except for those $100 handshakes at MD). But let’s say they apply, they’re still not a sufficient argument for restructing transfers.

Even with your restrictions, there would still be a competitive imbalance, so that part of your argument falls flat. Look at the strong programs of the past when we had more transfer restrictions in place. Or look at New England, Golden State and Alabama in your examples. So even the organizations with these restrictions are highly ineffective.
Competitive equity is something that exists in all competitive sports from little league to the NFL, and the NFL has been wildly successful because of it.

New England is the prime example of what works. Their organization / coaching is why they're perennially successful, as it should be. If they could just reload with the best players year after year, it would not be good for the league. They have the same salary constraints as the NY Jets, but just do a much better job with those assets.

HS sports right now might be the only level that has no such restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely applaud MD, Bosco, Gorman, IMG for building the type of programs that attract the best talent. No one here at any private or semi-private school has a legitimate right to complain that any of those schools is doing something significantly wrong, or different than any other school has done previously.

I'm suggesting it may not be such a good thing in the long run to have unrestricted transfers.

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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by BBB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:05 pm

Wait, you want restrictions because you believe it leads to competitive balance and less dominant teams but when I give you examples of how that hasn’t been the case in your very own examples you then state that’s okay because the dominance happened in a way you deemed acceptable? So it’s okay to dominate one way but not the other? That just doesn’t hold water.

I respect you and your opinion Bick even if I disagree with it. Put simply you can’t logically support free markets and have this position with transfers without coming across as disingenuous if not hypocritical.

Right now there is no practical restriction on HS transfers. All we’re doing is putting in some ineffective hoops to jump through that only make it more of a hassle without stopping anyone from transferring who is committed to doing it. So I say lets at least dump the charade and let consumers make their own choices as to which vendor to pursue.

And it’s led to better football locally. My CdM example holds true; guys like Humphries and Schloam are at MD in prior years. Instead, MD improved as did CdM because of the transfers. The reality of football also led to this newer divisional structure (an example of innovation). Outside of D1, it’s made the other divisions far more competitively equitable (your main goal) while also making them more interesting. I see it as an improvement over prior arrangements or structures.

In terms of the NFL, even they have free agency and they don’t limit the number of free agent signings a team can pursue. That’s what you’re suggesting.

And whose to say New England would succeed at the same level with a wide open market? That’s a very different environment than the one they operate in now. And I’d argue the restrictions of a salary cap you tout as strengths are, in large part, exactly why they’re been able to achieve a much higher level of sustained success (as in it BENEFITS them given their impressive organization). Open up that market and other teams will be better positioned to compete.

Your specific suggestion to limit the number of transfers will never stand up in court. So that one is off the table. I believe MDDad is the one to point out that no one has been able to propose a realistic way to eliminate transfers.

Let’s give up the charade altogether and let the competitive dynamics work their magic.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Any more transfers to speak about?

Post by Professor Fate » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:18 pm

1. I don't see that free markets should have anything to do with HS Football.

2. I can't agree that 70-7 ballgames can be described as being good for football locally.

3. Bick's idea of capping transfers at five is workable. I also thought about the sixth being treated differently, but what you do is you take applications during a transfer period. and you don't make a decision until the application period is over, then you choose the five best.
Make Them Cry Again In 2020

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