Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

THETRUTH
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #3

Post by THETRUTH » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:21 pm

LanceSterling wrote:Maybe not as much in the OC due to the more relaxed life style but there are parts of this country where HS FB is king and ref's are royalty and this stuff goes on more then anyone likes to admit.


Standing near the locker room door in Stillwater, OK and one official was nice enough to stop by and remind us that we were in Big-10 country now and there was no need to carry on during the game!

It happens everywhere!

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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:54 pm

Ya know, a coach can curse my stripes all day .. it's when he takes it too far and gets personal and uses adjectives is when gets the flag. The guy doesn't know me. I lived the emotion and dedication it takes to coach, I did it for 20+ years and frankly, officiating is less stressful (and I used to be an air traffic controller). I like working with the coaches and when they get close to the line, I can usually talk them down. There are bad coaches, bad, doctors, bad musicians, bad employees, bad Dads, bad officials ... life does go on .. :cheers:

Can we talk about the rules? :shrug:
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

pshaw
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by pshaw » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:38 pm

Zebra, I was wondering what your take is on what not4u13 said here:
not4u13 wrote:I remember one case where there was a hold right in front of me. It was minor in my view. The wide receiver was heading around a defender and just ran past them. The inexperienced defender reached out and got some of the jersey and held on for a couple of steps before realizing what he had done and let go. In my judgement this action was incidental and did not impede the progress of the wide receiver. No flag. The pass was long, just beyond the grasp of the receiver. Coach came out to talk to me. Asked me why I didn't call the obvious hold. I explained that in my view (above) and further told him that it was my job to ensure that the rules were enforced in a fair and equitable manner. If I had called THAT hold, I would have to throw flags all the time.
I would think you come across these kind of situations a lot.

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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:29 am

pshaw wrote:Zebra, I was wondering what your take is on what not4u13 said here:

I would think you come across these kind of situations a lot.
... you do not have to call all holding. For example, if the right tackle is hooking a defensive end on a pitch to the opposite side, we aree not going to call it ... unless the ballcarrier changes his direction back to the other side. That technaically is holding but it doesn't affect the play. In that situation, if we threw a flag for that, we'd be there all day.

In the situation above, on a pass, if the ball goes the other way, I'm going to let it go and warn the DB that grabbing the guy is going to draw a flag, IF the ball comes his way for defensive holding. If the ball is overthrown, it doesn't matter in HS football, if there was holding on the WR by a DB before the ball was thrown to him, it is defensive holding. Our philosophy for defensive and offensive holding is: If it's not at the point of attack, it shouldn't be called. The rules should be enforced. Some of them aren't fair or equitable, that's why there are changes in the rules from time to time. The bigger point is advantage/disadvantage. If the foul puts a player at a disadvantage, you must call it. If the fouls screams at you, what we call YaGEE (You and God, Everyone Else saw the foul), you have to call it. The higher the level of football one officiates, the more the fouls stick out.
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

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atgreek
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by atgreek » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:37 am

If would see to me that unless a ball carrier is gone, any hold on a running play effects the result. If the backside DE is pursuing hard, there's less room to cut back.
I hardly ever got on the refs though if the calls were consistent.
The overwhelming majority of the time, they were.

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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:39 am

Here's the answer to the weekend's quation ....

Second and 18 for team A from its own 10 yardline. A1’s legal forward pass
intended for eligible A2 is incomplete with B3 covering. While arguing that A2
was guilty of pass interference, team B’s coach curses the line judge and is
flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. Team A accepts the penalty.

a. It will be second and three for team A from its own 25 yardline.
b. It will be third and three for team A from its own 25 yardline.
c. It will be first and 10 for team A from its own 25 yardline.

UniDad, amongst others, has it correct and has explained the automatic foirst downs in HS football …..
Dead ball foul. Third down. 15-yard penalty for Unsportsmanlike Conduct takes the ball to A's 25 yard line. Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties are the same for players and non-players. Two USC calls gets you ejected.

In High School, automatic first downs are awarded only for: Roughing the snapper/holder/kicker/passer; or Defensive PI

Great job!
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

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Zebra
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Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by Zebra » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:10 am

Question 4 …. plus a bonus question …

A’s ball, third and 10 on team A’s 20 yardline. Team A’s coach thinks it’s fourth down
and sends punter A7 onto the field. When A7 reaches the huddle and tells A9 to
leave the game, he is told it’s only third down. A7 then runs off the field:

a. Legal.
b. Flag team A immediately for illegal substitution.
c. If team A snaps the ball they will be flagged for illegal substitution.
d. Team A can avoid a foul by calling a timeout.

Bonus question for Monday …

How many time outs are you allowed during an overtime period?
a. Any timeouts left over from the second half
b. Any timeouts left over from the second half plus one additional
c. One
d. Two
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

not4u13
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by not4u13 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:01 pm

Zebra wrote: Question 4 …. plus a bonus question …

A’s ball, third and 10 on team A’s 20 yardline. Team A’s coach thinks it’s fourth down
and sends punter A7 onto the field. When A7 reaches the huddle and tells A9 to
leave the game, he is told it’s only third down. A7 then runs off the field:

a. Legal.
b. Flag team A immediately for illegal substitution.
c. If team A snaps the ball they will be flagged for illegal substitution.
d. Team A can avoid a foul by calling a timeout.
Interesting. If this were considered illegal substitution then both c AND d would be correct as a timeout would negate any such issue with substitution. b cannot be correct because the substitution rules are only effective after the snap of the ball. By process of elimination, the answer must be a.

The rule basically states that you cannot break a huddle with more than 11.
Zebra wrote: Bonus question for Monday …

How many time outs are you allowed during an overtime period?
a. Any timeouts left over from the second half
b. Any timeouts left over from the second half plus one additional
c. One
d. Two
Timeouts do NOT carry over from half or from the end of the game. There is no reason to "save" them. Answer a and b are incorrect. I believe you are given one timeout. Answer is c.
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SoMelo
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by SoMelo » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:38 pm

Zebra wrote:Question 4 …. plus a bonus question …

A’s ball, third and 10 on team A’s 20 yardline. Team A’s coach thinks it’s fourth down
and sends punter A7 onto the field. When A7 reaches the huddle and tells A9 to
leave the game, he is told it’s only third down. A7 then runs off the field:

a. Legal.
b. Flag team A immediately for illegal substitution.
c. If team A snaps the ball they will be flagged for illegal substitution.
d. Team A can avoid a foul by calling a timeout.

Bonus question for Monday …

How many time outs are you allowed during an overtime period?
a. Any timeouts left over from the second half
b. Any timeouts left over from the second half plus one additional
c. One
d. Two
But if they did punt and miss would they still get the 4th down?

the answer is C

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by edcoil » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:24 pm

not4u13 wrote: Interesting. If this were considered illegal substitution then both c AND d would be correct as a timeout would negate any such issue with substitution. b cannot be correct because the substitution rules are only effective after the snap of the ball. By process of elimination, the answer must be a.

The rule basically states that you cannot break a huddle with more than 11.

Timeouts do NOT carry over from half or from the end of the game. There is no reason to "save" them. Answer a and b are incorrect. I believe you are given one timeout. Answer is c.
I have to agree with not4u13 however the question prompted discussion at the office. Is there a designated punter in HS? I appreciate one is on the roster but in Freshman and JV and Varsity are ref's made aware of this and 2) do you have to declare a quick-kick at the HS level?

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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by Zebra » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:35 pm

edcoil wrote:
I have to agree with not4u13 however the question prompted discussion at the office. Is there a designated punter in HS? I appreciate one is on the roster but in Freshman and JV and Varsity are ref's made aware of this and 2) do you have to declare a quick-kick at the HS level?
No, anyone can punt the ball. 1) When I white hat Freshman and JV games, I ask for the punter's number and which leg he kicks with. It helps me with my count, numbering and to be compliant with the mechanics on which side to be on. 2) There are numbering requirements for scrimmage kicks on third down as opposed to fourth down ever since the A11 offense got big a few years ago.
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

edcoil
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by edcoil » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:39 pm

2) There are numbering requirements for scrimmage kicks on third down as opposed to fourth down ever since the A11 offense got big a few years ago.
Last edited by edcoil on Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

edcoil
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day #4

Post by edcoil » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:17 pm

And sends punter A7 onto the field

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