The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

eagleforlife
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by eagleforlife »

Compete wrote:The KIDS are the sole reason that SMCH is the state champion, the hard work combined with their superior athletic ability makes them a unique group unmatched by many. You could have had any number of coaching staffs produce the same results with this talent, so the fact coaches and administrators made bad decisions should take nothing away from the boys that put in the hard work and produced the results. What the coaches did or did not do had no impact on the end result.
I do not believe any number of coaching staffs could have produced the same result. Hary Welch is the only HC in California that could have produced those results and Marty Spaulding is the only line coach on this earth who could have created that offensive engine.
THETRUTH
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by THETRUTH »

eagleforlife wrote:
I do not believe any number of coaching staffs could have produced the same result. Hary Welch is the only HC in California that could have produced those results and Marty Spaulding is the only line coach on this earth who could have created that offensive engine.

Really, hmmmmm, there is a certain coach from a green and white colored school in Concord, CA, I think he and his line coach could get the job done!

Maybe one of the reasons people are not dropping this is that individuals like you and lickitysplit post such foolish things, but I guess every school needs it's forum clowns!
cruiser
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by cruiser »

Yes, and DLS's OLine usually only averages 235lbs or so, this year it was 222lbs!; just unbelievable, to
say the least.....
Mr. Grady
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Mr. Grady »

I'm going to concur with Luca and eagleforlife's opinions here because they are in line with my thoughts on the matter. I have nothing material to offer just a few presumptions and insights which could be right or wrong but serves as a more enlightened form of speculation.

The 2010 Varsity Banquet was held within days of the Mission Viejo loss on Thanksiving weekend and about 1-2 weeks before the infamous bust. At that time the football team broke for the holidays and I'm sure Harry's interface with Sean was minimal (if at all) until the players returned in early January. For clarity's sake Sean was an assistant to Harry but his supervisor was technically the Strength and Conditioning Coach - Mike Jacot. I'm not implying Mike is culpable of anything as he's about as ethical and trustworthy as they come, but some have said that Sean had an obligation to tell Harry what happened and so be it, but the proper chain of command was through Mike. (Yes, SM is sort of like Penn State where a wildly successful Head Coach has more stature and implied authority than just about anyone including the AD, but in the HR world a defined supervisor is who you report to.) Whether or not he told Mike in December of what happened is unknown. Perhaps he did and perhaps word did indeed reach the front office. My suspicion is that Sean told as few people as possible at his lawyer's advice as nothing good was bound to come out of this episode.

My presumption is that once the banquet ended Sean went about his personal life with two old friends and teammates in an Juan Capistrano. Remember it was December 14th when the officers arrived - nine days after everyone had called it a year. Sean probably had no reason to contact Harry or Mike unless and until the pressure to disclose his actions or solicit a character witness became too great. Perhaps he hired a high priced attorney who told him to keep this on the down low and tell as few people as possible. The continuances and the not guilty plea are in line with the school's compassionate "lets wait until due process takes it's course". As a sidebar, if any of you have ever had a staffer whom you love and trust you want to give the the benefit of the doubt, ands if any of you have faced a felony (or two) you are scared out of your wits and are probably begging for forgiveness. Mind you, Harry is someone Pete Townshend would have written songs about circe 1975, but in conversations with those who know him he can be a trusted confidant who will stick up for those whom he believes deserve being stuck up for if you know what I mean. My guess is that Harry would stick up for Sean in a character witness capacity. I doubt Harry would lie or openly cover anything up, band make no mistake he wouldn't risk his career for anyone. if asked. My interaction with him has been minimal but I've followed his career for the past five years and talked to enough folks both tangentily close and veryclose to him to offer the above.

I'm not clear when Robert Hendricks was hired but by the summer was probably clear that the DA's office wasn't going to drop the charges and the September court date was closing in. Again, whether or not Sean, and now, Robert, disclosed anything to Harry, Mike, Rich Schaaf or Ray Dunne as September approached is unknown, and really none of our business, but knowing Ray I believe his word that he didn't know of this mess until October. I also believe that his first memo to the parents and staff reflected Ray and Paul's position as to the employment status of Sean and Robert. The second came after the unexpected public outcry. They were obliviously blindsided by the OCR story (a huge surprise to many) and no doubt illprepared for the fallout (their fault). Steve Fryer doesn't troll the halls of the Couty or Federal Courthouses in Santa Ana looking for criminal stories to follow-up on. The OCR was tipped off to this and like eagleforlife I wouldn't put it past a parent in South OC with an ax to grind and the right datebase access to expose this and see where the chips may fall. This individual had nothing to lose and a lot to potentially gain (i.e. "Hee hee hee. This may get Harry fired"), so the motive and background of that has to be questioned.
eagleforlife
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by eagleforlife »

Hey Cruiser-they should call you the Dork! and You Can't Handle The Truth-

Maybe you two DLS lovers can look up the mano e mano record of Coach Welch vs The DLS guy.

'Nuff Said
Dan Patrick
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Dan Patrick »

Mr. Grady wrote:I'm going to concur with Luca and eagleforlife's opinions here because they are in line with my thoughts on the matter. I have nothing material to offer just a few presumptions and insights which could be right or wrong but serves as a more enlightened form of speculation.

The 2010 Varsity Banquet was held within days of the Mission Viejo loss on Thanksiving weekend and about 1-2 weeks before the infamous bust. At that time the football team broke for the holidays and I'm sure Harry's interface with Sean was minimal (if at all) until the players returned in early January. For clarity's sake Sean was an assistant to Harry but his supervisor was technically the Strength and Conditioning Coach - Mike Jacot. I'm not implying Mike is culpable of anything as he's about as ethical and trustworthy as they come, but some have said that Sean had an obligation to tell Harry what happened and so be it, but the proper chain of command was through Mike. (Yes, SM is sort of like Penn State where a wildly successful Head Coach has more stature and implied authority than just about anyone including the AD, but in the HR world a defined supervisor is who you report to.) Whether or not he told Mike in December of what happened is unknown. Perhaps he did and perhaps word did indeed reach the front office. My suspicion is that Sean told as few people as possible at his lawyer's advice as nothing good was bound to come out of this episode.

My presumption is that once the banquet ended Sean went about his personal life with two old friends and teammates in an Juan Capistrano. Remember it was December 14th when the officers arrived - nine days after everyone had called it a year. Sean probably had no reason to contact Harry or Mike unless and until the pressure to disclose his actions or solicit a character witness became too great. Perhaps he hired a high priced attorney who told him to keep this on the down low and tell as few people as possible. The continuances and the not guilty plea are in line with the school's compassionate "lets wait until due process takes it's course". As a sidebar, if any of you have ever had a staffer whom you love and trust you want to give the the benefit of the doubt, ands if any of you have faced a felony (or two) you are scared out of your wits and are probably begging for forgiveness. Mind you, Harry is someone Pete Townshend would have written songs about circe 1975, but in conversations with those who know him he can be a trusted confidant who will stick up for those whom he believes deserve being stuck up for if you know what I mean. My guess is that Harry would stick up for Sean in a character witness capacity. I doubt Harry would lie or openly cover anything up, band make no mistake he wouldn't risk his career for anyone. if asked. My interaction with him has been minimal but I've followed his career for the past five years and talked to enough folks both tangentily close and veryclose to him to offer the above.

I'm not clear when Robert Hendricks was hired but by the summer was probably clear that the DA's office wasn't going to drop the charges and the September court date was closing in. Again, whether or not Sean, and now, Robert, disclosed anything to Harry, Mike, Rich Schaaf or Ray Dunne as September approached is unknown, and really none of our business, but knowing Ray I believe his word that he didn't know of this mess until October. I also believe that his first memo to the parents and staff reflected Ray and Paul's position as to the employment status of Sean and Robert. The second came after the unexpected public outcry. They were obliviously blindsided by the OCR story (a huge surprise to many) and no doubt illprepared for the fallout (their fault). Steve Fryer doesn't troll the halls of the Couty or Federal Courthouses in Santa Ana looking for criminal stories to follow-up on. The OCR was tipped off to this and like eagleforlife I wouldn't put it past a parent in South OC with an ax to grind and the right datebase access to expose this and see where the chips may fall. This individual had nothing to lose and a lot to potentially gain (i.e. "Hee hee hee. This may get Harry fired"), so the motive and background of that has to be questioned.
Conspiracy theories from the SM faithful. Gotta love it.

This whole thing wouldn't have happened if "Deep Throat" hadn't "dropped a dime" to Fryer.
Luca,I do get a guilty pleasure out of your posts, it is like watching a fat woman in the gym. Got to applaud the effort but have to remind myself to hide the laughs.
Luca
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Luca »

That's rather a glib summary of what he said, there, Dan. He just gave four paragraphs of information and you focus on the last two sentences. You realize it WAS a disgruntled OC parent who attempted to make an issue of SM's open house last year.

You have consistently taken the most negative possible perspective on the episode. I'm sure you have your reasons, but as I read them they are not any more rational than the most Pollyanish of SM boosters' takes.

What is your scenario of what happened and what evidence do you have? Why do you assume deliberate wrongdoing on the part of the school and why?

(By the way, I do appreciate your earlier comments, but in the absence of any evidence of wrongdoing by the school, why all the negative assumptions?)
crayegg
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by crayegg »

Glib, yes, whatever...

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

:D
BoscoBandWagon
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by BoscoBandWagon »

Just when i thought the majority of sm parents "got it" we have another come on here with jibberish

the kids had a great year, they won cif & state, that is not being taken away from them.
what has is the negative talk about their program bc what two young and dumb coaches did

#1
coach coen played for harry and was hired for harry. harry put him in the spot of "asst strength coach" and although the head strength coach is mike jacot sean DID not report to mike. please leave mike out of this he is one of many that have known about this for some time and was told to make no comment to anybody about anything. he is one of a few of campus that knew what was going on and was upset that the school was doing nothing bc harry "assistant to the president" was supposed to be handling it but they knew nothing was gonna happen
#2
the fact that harry hired hendricks after this went down shows harry's arrogance
#3
blaming the whole thing on a south county parent? probably from jserra? i actually heard it was from a ex-sm parent that was pissed with the way he treated his son. guess they found out bc the kids were talking about it the week sean was being "punsihed" and not allowed to show up for prx or the game.
kids talk, people talk...there was no way this was gonna be swept under the rug.
i dont know y fryer waited until after the state game, if he broke the story before it would have been such a distraction they probably wouldnt have won cif

just my two cents from a bosco alumni's way before sm was even a high school, but knows people associated with this ordeal.
Last edited by BoscoBandWagon on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Compete
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Compete »

[quote="Luca"]That's rather a glib summary of what he said, there, Dan. He just gave four paragraphs of information and you focus on the last two sentences. You realize it WAS a disgruntled OC parent who attempted to make an issue of SM's open house last year.

Luca - was not a digruntled OC parent who started the open houses issue, it was a coach at Tesoro who coached many of the SM boys in pop warner. This was mentioned in the very first article from SF and actually was on a video as well.
Compete
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Compete »

Luca - this type of reaction is exactly what led to Sandusky skating free for years, surprised your the type to ignore such activity if it is in your best interest.

I disagree that simply living on the premises is wrong. If I was in my 20s, needed to rent a place in South County and a guy offered me a good rent on a bedroom to stay in - but he would use the garage for his marijuana operation (which, you understand, can be a legal enterprise in certain areas Orange County under local laws) - I might take that. I'd tell him to make it clear that it was his enterprise, but I'm not doing anything wrong just by living there.
I would agree that it is simple. But only if you have the facts ........Luca[/quote]
cruiser
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by cruiser »

Well, people say this guys are young,like just out of college, etc, but one is 26, the other 27, not exactly
babes in the woods, you know.......... and as I posted before; WHY would two squared away HS coaches
WANT to live in residence under the conditions involved?
RandyF59
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by RandyF59 »

cruiser wrote:Well, people say this guys are young,like just out of college, etc, but one is 26, the other 27, not exactly
babes in the woods, you know.......... and as I posted before; WHY would two squared away HS coaches
WANT to live in residence under the conditions involved?
:iknow: That's easy. South County rentals, even allowing for the real estate collapse, are not cheap. Especially for a walk-on HS coach.
crayegg
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by crayegg »

Grady said, "Harry is someone Pete Townshend would have written songs about..."

Nice character reference. Remember when Pete got busted for downloading child porn on his credit card? But he was just doing "research," right?
jjirsa78
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by jjirsa78 »

RandyF59 wrote: :iknow: That's easy. South County rentals, even allowing for the real estate collapse, are not cheap. Especially for a walk-on HS coach.
I was renting my own place in south OC at 23. It's not expensive if you're not spending most of your income on weed.
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SoMelo
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by SoMelo »

jjirsa78 wrote:
I was renting my own place in south OC at 23. It's not expensive if you're not spending most of your income on weed.
You'd think if your roommate was growing it you could at least get a discount --:--
FriarJoe
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by FriarJoe »

Luca is obviously intelligent and well spoken, if not verbose. However, living in a residence where there is a pot operation going on is a BAD JUDGMENT by those coaches. I'm hard pressed to believe that Luca would advise his son to live where there is a pot operation present (so long as it was clear that Luca's son had nothing to do with it). Come on Luca...putting yourself in that situation is a huge lapse in judgment.

Also, i am in the legal profession, have much experience/knowledge of criminal proceedings and can assure you those coaches were involved in far more than what they plead to. Plea agreements are compromises by nature and typically the defendants have done much worse, but for legal expediancy (and due to limited resources) the DA cuts them a break...pushes them through the system..adds another guilty conviction to their resume and life goes on. However, if you want me to believe that these coaches only did what they plead to, then you must think I am naive beyond belief. Yes, there is much conjecture on this particular thread but there was clearly a cover-up here..perhaps due to loyalty to these coaches or some other rationale that may have been well intended, but the fact remains that firing them long ago was the right thing to do. Its not reflective of the attitude of the school as a whole, but they dropped the ball on this one.
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SoMelo
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by SoMelo »

FriarJoe wrote:Luca is obviously intelligent and well spoken, if not verbose. However, living in a residence where there is a pot operation going on is a BAD JUDGMENT by those coaches. I'm hard pressed to believe that Luca would advise his son to live where there is a pot operation present (so long as it was clear that Luca's son had nothing to do with it). Come on Luca...putting yourself in that situation is a huge lapse in judgment.

Also, i am in the legal profession, have much experience/knowledge of criminal proceedings and can assure you those coaches were involved in far more than what they plead to. Plea agreements are compromises by nature and typically the defendants have done much worse, but for legal expediancy (and due to limited resources) the DA cuts them a break...pushes them through the system..adds another guilty conviction to their resume and life goes on. However, if you want me to believe that these coaches only did what they plead to, then you must think I am naive beyond belief. Yes, there is much conjecture on this particular thread but there was clearly a cover-up here..perhaps due to loyalty to these coaches or some other rationale that may have been well intended, but the fact remains that firing them long ago was the right thing to do. Its not reflective of the attitude of the school as a whole, but they dropped the ball on this one.
Hey Friar Joe,
Are court records (transcripts and everything) available to the public?
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Notorious
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Notorious »

FriarJoe wrote:Luca is obviously intelligent and well spoken, if not verbose. However, living in a residence where there is a pot operation going on is a BAD JUDGMENT by those coaches. I'm hard pressed to believe that Luca would advise his son to live where there is a pot operation present (so long as it was clear that Luca's son had nothing to do with it). Come on Luca...putting yourself in that situation is a huge lapse in judgment.
I'm sorry it's not a lapse in judgment from the facts presented to me. Let's just assume they really had nothing to do with it, and this was just going on where they lived.

These guys were living together doing this correct? This is Orange County, more so it's South Orange County. You grab onto whatever apartment/room/house you can afford to get regardless of the circumstances. My roommate sells pills from time to time. I really have no choice of moving out right now because I can't afford to, I get a good deal and when you see a good deal you hold onto it. There's time to take moral high ground that isn't when you're trying to just find a clean place to live.

Not to mention if it's another roommate's and/or landlord's what if it's a good friend of theirs? You can say what you want about choosing your friends, but most of the younger generation isn't going to care what you do as long as it doesn't inhibit them from not having to do anything extra.

With that said, I do think they were involved (speculation and assumptions by me).
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Ramon
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Re: The lack of clarity at Santa Margarita

Post by Ramon »

Notorious wrote: I'm sorry it's not a lapse in judgment from the facts presented to me. Let's just assume they really had nothing to do with it, and this was just going on where they lived.

These guys were living together doing this correct? This is Orange County, more so it's South Orange County. You grab onto whatever apartment/room/house you can afford to get regardless of the circumstances. My roommate sells pills from time to time. I really have no choice of moving out right now because I can't afford to, I get a good deal and when you see a good deal you hold onto it. There's time to take moral high ground that isn't when you're trying to just find a clean place to live.

Not to mention if it's another roommate's and/or landlord's what if it's a good friend of theirs? You can say what you want about choosing your friends, but most of the younger generation isn't going to care what you do as long as it doesn't inhibit them from not having to do anything extra.

With that said, I do think they were involved (speculation and assumptions by me).
Spot on Noto...Very well put...

PS...When I lived in Albuquerque I found out my roommate was a dealer...I found a new place and moved out within 30 days...3 months later the new roommate and the dealer were not only shanked when a deal went bad...They went to jail for possession with the intent to distribute...We all make choices...And there is HUGE difference between a few e-tabs and hundreds of MJ plants...
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