Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

BoscoBrave
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by BoscoBrave » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:18 pm

I'm just taking your lunch money Red!

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Al Koholik
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Al Koholik » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:26 am

You MD folks can cite "policy" and pull a few names out of your butt, but... The fact is... AGAIN...

McKnight DOES NOT let his big-time BB players cross-over to play FB.

He DOES let FB players on the squad, if they can hold their own on the court. But, as noted in all of the examples shared by other posters, it's usually a high-profile FB player. Looks good for McKnight and the school. Colt Brennan was the 12th man his Sr. year. You don't think there was anyone else in the program for 4 years that might have been a better cager than Colt? Having him on the squad was "good for the school/BB program" politics

Are some of you going to now tell me that MD Basketball isn't a FEE FACTORY? How many kids are in MD's BB program? Anyone? A (rule violation) more than any other HSBB program I've ever seen. Bristol and Edinger is littered with carcasses of HS BB players whose dream of playing Varsity at MD was facilitated just long enough to get 3 years worth of FEES from the parents. McKnight knows his Varsity squad 2-3 years in advance but everyone is led to believe they have a chance. Factor in the transfer variable and....

Heck, they have 19 players on their Varsity Roster. WTF is that? That's fees and making a few big donor parents happy. How many do they carry on each of their 3 or 4 frosh teams?

And talk to me about how they treat athletes who decide MD is not the place for them, either athletically or otherwise? Do they practice sound educational standards and understand that the best thing for the kid is not to attempt to hinder his eligibility just because they can? No, they mark the box on the transfer form that indicates they are not releasing the kid to be eligible to participate in, not only Varsity sports, but any sport.

I can cite two recent examples where FB kids transferred out, one for financial reasons and another for athletic reasons. Both had to fight tooth and nail, replete with lawyers and CIF hearings, to be eligible at their next school. One of them had to fight just to be eligible to play JV, and MD fought back. Now these kids transferred to a school on MD's schedule so I'm sure that added to the equation, in all the wrong and educationally unsound ways. Not to mention the hypocrisy when they scream, "athletically motivated transfer", the very mode by which the athletic teams are filled at MD.

Again, this is not hate toward MD, Gary M or anyone. Great school and I like Gary and his staff. I would send my kids there in a second if it were geographically feasible. Just facts from someone who has an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of MD athletics. It is what it is, right, wrong or otherwise. But IT IS.

P.S. to MDDAD. It is pretty relevant as TJackson was inquiring about his son playing both sports and about D1 scholarships. In TJacksons scenario, his son would is a scholarship athlete at one or the other or both, therefore he's either gonna be on one side of that or the other, he may not be Barkley or Johnson, but he would be an athlete of note. BUT, again, If he is a D1 BB player, HE AIN"T PLAYIN FOOTBALL! If he's a D1 FB player... no problem, he can play hoops if Gary lets him. So yes, relevant in my estimation.
"A woman once drove me to drink and I never had the decency to thank her."
W.C. Fields

fttank
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by fttank » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:07 am

Al,

Please inform us of basketball players at Mater Dei that wanted to play football that McKnight prevented.

Thank you in advance,

Fttank

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OCFAN4FB
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by OCFAN4FB » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:30 am

Keisean Lucier-south plays both FB and BB on varsity at OLu. It is kind of funny that this is no longer what is the best school for his Son but how can I recruit him to each posters favorite school that they like. A kid transferred from OLu to Bosco and it takes him 40 minutes 1 way to get to school. That is a crazy commute to me.
INAM "It's not about me"

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Al Koholik
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Al Koholik » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:33 pm

Mike and DJ Strawberry, to name a couple. Trevonte Nelson was another that comes to mind. There have been more than a few over the last 15-20 years.
I believe part of the impetus for Reuland transferring to MV was that he wanted to play both and McKnight was not 100% on board with that. Big loss for both programs.
"A woman once drove me to drink and I never had the decency to thank her."
W.C. Fields

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Al Koholik
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Al Koholik » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:40 pm

OC, I noticed that as well and find it both interesting and deplorable.
While some may color my take as Anti-MD, I just offered the best advice I had for the guy based on my personal experiences. I certainly didn't once say don't go to this school or that school, or go to such and such, nor did I suggest he commute 45-60 minutes down to my beloved Edison, ala Bosco and other vultures circling overhead.
At what point shame? At what cost Victory?
"A woman once drove me to drink and I never had the decency to thank her."
W.C. Fields

MDDad
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by MDDad » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:05 pm

I don't want to sound impatient, but I'm still waiting for the long list of athletes from other schools who were impact players or scholarship players in both football and basketball.

longtimeobserver
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by longtimeobserver » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:10 pm

I don't know why the Reuland's transferred out of MD but they are good friends of McKnight.
They show up to many of his important games during the season and in fact the parents and one of the
sons sat in front of me at the Extravaganza two weeks ago.

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Notorious
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Notorious » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:23 pm

I don't know if he had any offers but I think Jed Collins could have played D1 basketball.
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fttank
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by fttank » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:03 pm

Al how about naming someone recently in the last 5 years? And can you prove that the young man that you mention wanted to play and was told that he could not by McKnight and not someone else (parent, college recruiter, etc). I don't think you can. I don't care how much natural talent you have, if you plan on competing for a starting spot on the MD Varsity bb team you will be at a big disadvantage to those talented players that only play bb year round.

You should stick to being the Charger expert and stop pretending that you know the in and outs of Mater Dei.

Fttank

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Al Koholik
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Al Koholik » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:15 pm

MDDad, I never wrote or implied I could or would produce a list of cross-over kids from other schools. I cannot speak intelligently on the inner-workings of more than a handful of schools, and you know as well as anyone that I have an intimate knowledge of MD athletics. Tank see's me as a pretender pulling this stuff out of my arse. Oh ye of little faith. Why would I make this stuff up? I love MD, when they're not playing Edison. A parent asked a question on local privates, two sports athletes and D1 scholarships. I would say that MD is in that wheelhouse. I gave him honest input from actual experience and now I am a MD hater and making up pretend stories. What would I possibly have to gain by doing so? What is my agenda? You certainly didn't read the word Edison in any of my posts. The oft absence of logic and simple reasoning by posters on this board is exhausting.

I know specialization and athlete hoarding is alive and well beyond the gates of MD but anyone, including yourself, that argues that MD Basketball isn't a completely different animal than any other program in OC and maybe all of SoCal is either naïve, ignorant or drinking the Kool Aid.
"A woman once drove me to drink and I never had the decency to thank her."
W.C. Fields

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ND7
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by ND7 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:38 pm

On this one I have to agree with MDDad :D
"What matters is not that it's true, but that I believe it; or no, not that I believe it, but that I believe it....I trust I make myself obscure."
St. Thomas More, A Man for All Seasons.

MDDad
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by MDDad » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:03 pm

Al, you and I have known each other for fourteen years, so I propose we pick up the peace pipe. I hope you also allow for the possibility that things have changed in the ten or eleven years since you've been gone.

The bottom line is this. If I lived in Anaheim Hills and had an eighth grade son who I thought could be a great high school football player, I'd have multiple options in choosing a high school. If I had a son who I thought could be a great high school basketball player and I lived anywhere within 20 miles of Bristol and Edinger, I'd choose Mater Dei. Their combination of excellent academics, demographic diversity, and playing basketall at the highest level is hard to beat.

More importantly, if I have a kid who could potentially be a star in either sport, I'd try to give him the best of both worlds. The reality is that you have to go back 20 years to Tony Gonzalez to find a true superstar in both sports, so it is a very, very rare occurrence. Truthfully, boys will gravitate towards one sport or the other within their first two years, so any politics surrounding two-sport athletes becomes almost negligible.

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Al Koholik
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Al Koholik » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:50 am

Dad, I don't disagree with your final assessment. Very true. But anyone considering MD on an athletic basis needs to have a full understanding of exactly what you alluded to... Politics. The sports politics at MD exists at a level I have yet to see replicated. I will PM you a prime example that I am sure will strike a chord with you.
Peace Pipe indeed... Puff, Puff, give.
"A woman once drove me to drink and I never had the decency to thank her."
W.C. Fields

MustangMike
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by MustangMike » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:52 am

It doesn't matter where a kid goes if they are a legitimate D1 prospect. If you want him to play 2 sports, go public school. Otherwise choose the best academic school so he'll have something at the end of four years.

Also, if he should "outgrow" his position in football like you did, there's nothing wrong with going to the hoops coach and explaining the situation and getting a walk on tryout for a BB scholarship at the same school.

LMNOP
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by LMNOP » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:17 pm

Allen (We talkin bout practice) Iverson was name Mr. Football in the state of Virgina his Sr. year in HS and Lebron James was All-State selection in football his Soph year.

Bubba#35
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by Bubba#35 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:44 pm

TJ, I don't know if the accusations on this subject are specifically true but I know there are schools where this type of stuff happens. I had a couple family member who attended a local school and played both football and baseball quite well. They were told to choose one and when they didn't their baseball playing time diminished. My only advise is to do your homework, I'm sure this is part of it. One other thing I would suggest is that I don't know that I would limit my selection to private schools, unless your religious beliefs direct you that way. Most public schools will give your kid a great education, it all depends how much effort the kid puts into it. If your boy is good enough the colleges will find him.

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watchersince68
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by watchersince68 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:14 pm

One thing everyone must consider if you play football at MD you will probably
be playing into mid December and BB starts Dec 1st, not to mention all the
practices that will be missed, so in some respects the athlete must make a
choice. If he plays FB it is unlikely (or fair) that he should come late into the
BB season and be a starter, but if he is talented (Cook) he WILL play.

There was more friction when McKnight was also athletic director, which he
no longer holds that title.

MDDad
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by MDDad » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:28 pm

The only teams that play into mid-December are those that play in the state bowl games, and realistically no school can count on that. Certainly, Mater Dei has never made it. Otherwise, even if a school makes it to the section semi-finals, they still generally conclude their seasons in late November.

TrinityLFB
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Re: Best future choice for an 8th grade athlete

Post by TrinityLFB » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:36 pm

Just my observations

1) In some cases it DOES matter where you go. I would not have believed this as much 4 to 5 years ago, but watching what has occurred at Bosco the past couple years has changed my opinion greatly. There are players on the Bosco roster right now that if they had played 5 years ago would not be sitting with a scholarship offer in hand. Sean McGrew was just offered by UCLA recently. There is no way a player like Sean, having not even started this year the first few games, would have been offered by UCLA as a sophomore just 5 years ago. The exposure to recruiters on a daily basis, not to mention the exposure of the state games helped these kids out greatly. There are a couple kids getting a lot of attention right now based on what they did in those last few games, a few of them just on special teams. Now, I know Negro a staff do a good job, but a lot of this is due to simple exposure, and not some magical coaching skills.

2) I have never heard of MD having such a strict policy against two sport players. There are policies at the AD level, and then unspoken policies among coaches. A recent MD QB comes to mind. Maybe Rollo never said don't play baseball, but I am sure he made it quite clear he prefer he didn't. And, can you really blame him? What coach would not want more time with his players, let alone his starting QB? But the kid clearly was able to play two sports and obviously baseball was the better one for him.

Every coach,no matter what they say, would love for an athlete to just play their sport, with the exception of maybe a football player wrestling or a sport that adds to their game. Sean McGrew is playing baseball right now. I am sure Negro would want him full time in the weight room. But, what a coach wants and what they will allow a kid to do are two different things. Just because Rollo or other MD coaches make it known they would rather a kid play one sport, doesn't mean they will keep a kid from doing it or harder bad feelings toward the kid.

Every one of Bosco's top 3 RBs are playing another sport right now (wrestling, baseball, rugby). It adds to the overall high school experience. But, sometimes unfortunately if you want to be elite, you focus on one sport. Josh Rosen could probably get a scholarship offer in tennis if he wanted, but he probably wouldn't be a 5 star QB.

Didn't a certain Servite LB play tennis?

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