Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

broman
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Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by broman »

What is the outcome if a team like El Dorado with one of toughest schedules in the Southern Division goes 0-10 and still has a rating higher than teams with six and seven wins. Should they get a wildcard berth? CIF removed the winning record requirement a few years ago for wildcards.
socalfan
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by socalfan »

Coach Crawford? Is that you posting and lobbying for a playoff spot if you go 0-10?
broman
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by broman »

Not Coach Crawford but they have a strong argument.
2002tony
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by 2002tony »

They dont have any argument until El Modena gets a wildcard spot. So you best hope El Modena has a strong enough argument to get a wild card over someone else first. Also, CIF does not look at the power rankings, it has a point system to award wild card spots.

The 3 rd place team in a league has to get a wild card first, before the 4th place team is even in the pool of teams to be considered. (in El Dorado case this is El Modena)

That is what happen to Crespi a couple a years ago but they were not 0-10, they were 8-2 and had played and won against a very strong schedule.

The problem was Crespi's 2 loses came in league and left them in a tie with Bishop Amat ( 2-2 in league). Bishop Amat had beaten Crespi head to head so Bishop Amat had the tie breaker between them which placed Bishop Amat in 3rd place and Crespi in 4th place.

Remember a 4th place team can not get a wild card spot before the 3rd place team in that league gets a wild card.
What happen next is that when the first wild card was to be awarded, Crespi was not in the pool of teams to be considered because Bishop Amat (3rd place) was in the pool first. Bisop amat did not get the first wild card because Tesoro had out scored BA in the point system with a win over Chino hills ( Bishop Amat had tied Chino Hills) giving Tesoro 2 points for common opponent, plus the teams that Tesoro played had a better over all record then the teams BA had played giving Tesoso another point over BIshop Amat.
Tesorto got the first wild card spot.

Now it was time to select the 2nd wild card and again Crespi was not in the pool because Bishop Amat was still in the pool. Bishop Amat got the last wild card and Crespi was never in the pool of teams to be considered.

Every sports writer wrote about how it was a shame that Tesoro got a wild card spot and Crespi did not with everyone agreeing that Crespi was a better team then Tesoro, but what they failed to realize was that Tesoro did not get a wild card spot over Crespi, it was over Bishop Amat.

So if the 2- 6 El Modena does not get a wild card spot, doesnt matter what El Dorado has because they will never be in the pool to be considered. Lesson is take care of business in league first.
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TommyTrojan
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by TommyTrojan »

If you finish 4th in a 4 team league (or what is really 8th in the Conference/League) you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone that you have a good case. Throw in going 0-10 and there is no way it is going to happen. Unless you have forfeits, you have to beat SOMEONE to make the playoffs. If ED is better at 0-10 than other teams in the division who will make the playoffs, what it really tells me is that the bottom of the Century League doesn't belong in that division.
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by broman »

The third place team in the North Hills is getting the first wildcard. So that would make the 4th place team in that league eligible which could be a 0-10 El Dorado. SOS vs win-loss?
number9
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by number9 »

SOS should only matter if you actually win a game. If you lose all preseason games and all league games you shouldn't be in the playoffs.
hit the lights
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by hit the lights »

What happened to Eldo in football??
Crawford isn't what he was hyped up to be. On the other hand, look at what Brea is doing.
Brea has been turning things around.
FriarJoe
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PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by FriarJoe »

Anyone have a quick summary of the process and criteria?
Beach bum 50
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Re: Cal Preps Ratings/ CIF Playoffs

Post by Beach bum 50 »

Crawford or whoever... 1st, you are 0-10. Terrible.
2nd, you should at least hang with Ayala and Fullerton. You can't score. Don't cry about your schedule, try running a system that will work and build from the lower levels up. Look at Buena Park blueprints. 0-38 then playoffs.

Crawford is a terrible fit for El Dorado. El Dorado will always be bad unless they can get an on-campus coach who knows how to build the program from the ground up. El Dorado could have hired a guy but no teaching job makes it hard. I know this for a fact. Crawford got the job just cuz he is off-campus.
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by MDDad »

You can go to Page 25 here (http://www.cifss.org/admin/images/previ ... review.pdf) for the entire text, but the pertinent section is quoted below.

Football Only:

NOTE: Should the number of guaranteed playoff entries fail to complete a full bracket; this will necessitate the inclusion of at-large teams. The following criteria and procedures will be used to accomplish this task.

(1) Leagues will have the option of entering at-large teams for consideration should they desire (see process below).

(2) All at-large entries must be submitted to the CIF-SS no later than 11:00 p.m. on the Friday evening for the weekend in which the playoff draw will be completed.

(3) Schools which are being submitted as at-large entries MUST submit to this office by 11:00 p.m. the Friday of the weekend in which the playoff draw is finalized, on the proper form which lists all contests played, results of same and any further background information the at-large selection committee should be appraised of in determining the teams which will be selected for the filling of byes.

(4) The Selection Committee, with the full support of the CIF-SS Football Coaches Advisory Committee, will utilize the following criteria in its selection process, with each category below having the specific weight listed:

Criteria utilized by the At-Large Selection Committee:

(a) Head-to-head competition of teams under consideration (4 points)

(b) Overall strength of the league from which the team is entered (1 point)

(c) Overall win-loss record (1 point)

(d) Strength against common opponents (1 point)

(e) Strength of schedule (2 points, using overall win-loss record of opponents)


(f) Free lance teams will be part of the pool for the filling of at-large berths

(5) The At-Large Selection Committee will meet in the CIF-SS office on the Saturday afternoon for the weekend in which the playoff draw is to be finalized. The administrator so designated from the CIF-SS office for football shall act as a resource person and chair the meeting.
Luca
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by Luca »

Using those criteria, I still don't see how the hell Crespi at 4-6 got a wild card over JSerra at 7-3 last year. Considering the criteria:

A.). There was no head to head competition
B.). The Trinity league he is stronger than the Serra league.
C.). Overall win-loss record speaks for itself
D.). There were no common opponents
E.). Crespi had only a stronger preseason (but not league) strength of schedule, and for God's sake Crespi lost to every one of those stronger opponents and got blown out by all but one. They beat only one team with a warning record all year long while JSerra beat four teams with a winning record.

If you add the theoretical points it is at best a tie (and even that's a stretch), and you would think that the more successful team with the better performance would have gotten the nod.............Luca
FriarJoe
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by FriarJoe »

Luca, there is a wrinkle in the criteria not mentioned. A team cannot be eligible for an at-large until the team(s) that finished ahead of them in their league have been selected for an at-large. JSerra got screwed by the coinflip last year because as I recall they finished 5th. Therefore JSerra was never even in the discussion with Crespi as I recall.
Playthegame
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by Playthegame »

That is correct, flips happen...
MDDad
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by MDDad »

Everybody's partially right.

Servite, Lutheran and JSerra finished in a 3-way tie for third place. Coin flips determined that Servite would be the league's #3 team, Lutheran would be #4, and JSerra #5.

There were two at-large spots. The first at-large decision was between Crespi and Lutheran, and Lutheran was selected. That moved JSerra up to face Crespi for the final at-large bid.

1. No head-to-head game.
2. No common opponents.
3. Won-loss record = 1 point for JSerra
4. League strength = 1 point for JSerra
5. Strength of schedule (i.e. won-loss record of opponents) = 2 points for Crespi.

That made it come down to who beat beat whom, and whom did those teams beat. The decisive factor was that Crespi beat Bishop Amat, JSerra beat Santa Margarita, but Amat also beat Margarita. Edge to Crespi.

The process sucks. The moral of the story is to win enough games to finish in the top half of your league. As they say in boxing and MMA, don't leave it in the hands of the judges.
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by Luca »

I can understand those first four points.

I have to say I'm a little hazy on the logic of #5, however. Granted, Crespi had a stronger preseason strength of schedule but on the other hand all those stronger teams beat the **** out of Crespi. Strength of schedule is indicative of ability if you actually win the games. Merely scheduling strong opponents doesn't make your performance any more impressive.

What they're saying is that getting blown out by a strong team is more indicative of your quality than beating a weaker team.

If we apply this analogy to WW2:

Greece lost to Germany.
The United States beat Italy
Therefore Greece would have beaten the United States based on strength of schedule............Luca
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Lionhunter
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by Lionhunter »

Did Greece end up tied with the US?
Goin' on a lion hunt, but I don't see no lion.
MDDad
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by MDDad »

Luca, your argument as to why JSerra should have been picked over Crespi is both logical and rational. Unfortunately, you make the mistake of expecting the same logic and rational thinking from the CIF. You've been around long enough to know better.

It seems that ever since all six Serra League teams made the Division I playoffs in 2002, the CIF has gone to great lengths to ensure that doesn't happen again....even if it's warranted.
Playthegame
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by Playthegame »

The mistake is expecting perfection from humans...
FriarJoe
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Re: PAC 5 Wildcard

Post by FriarJoe »

JSerra should have been picked over Crespi, however there is a flaw in Luca's logic. SOS does matter whether you win or lose. SOS is part of the reason why one team has a better record than another team. Win or Lose a team should be rewarded for testing itself and not taking the easy W. CIF recognizes that which is why they give 2 points for SOS over the win-loss record. JSerra is legit this year but last year's 7-3 overall record was directly impacted by their weak non-league scheduling where they went 5-0 and beat 5 cupcakes. If JSerra scheduled Bishop Gorman and De La Salle last year, don't you think they would have been 5-5 instead of 7-3? In that case, would it have been so grossly unfair to pick a 4-6 Crespi team over JSerra?
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