Servite's Larry Toner finally retires...

[Bigbear]

Are we really gonna go down this path? First off, it was said that Toner was asked to come back at the end of the 80’s because there were issues with discipline on the team, Professor would definitely have more insight to this. As for me, I had him as a teacher and a coach around the beginning of the 2000. Yes, he would yell at us when we messed up, and on a rare occasion, shook a player by the face mask, but we never took it as a personal attack. I can honestly say that I am better for having had him in both forms and still take to heart some of the lessons I’ve learned from him.

Also, he wasn’t the only coach during that time period who did things like that, especially when you go back to the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s. I’ve heard much worse from the likes of Harry Welch, and he is considered when of the most successful coaches of all time. I’m pretty sure there are others on this board that have stories of their coaches from back in the day. It just seems to me that today’s social climate has softened too many of us, spanning from the youth to what now appears to be all the way to the old timers.

[Professor Fate]

First off, it was said that Toner was asked to come back at the end of the 80’s because there were issues with discipline on the team, Professor would definitely have more insight to this.

Correct, Bigbear. This is a quote from Servite football programs:

Servite was winning, but something was missing, something that makes Servite football distinctive. It showed especially on the lower level programs, and it was percolating its way up.

As one observer put it:

"There were some discipline problems. Here at Servite, Here you're supposed to live a certain way and act a certain way. Some things were in total disarray, and that was indicative of how people were not paying attention to the football program."

That observer was Larry Toner. For years, Toner was a lower levels football coach and an assistant in the Servite basketball program, and had been a major influence on Servite men in athletics and in the classroom. Having been away teaching in Portland for a few years, Toner was asked to return to get Servite football back on track.

[watchersince68]

The early seventies at MD had Marv Bain grabbing the fullback by the shirt front buttons after PE and pinning him to the wall, that was impressive. However you may disagree it taught us all a lesson.

[John Q. Public]

That assault and battery are good ways of getting your point across? Drill Sergeants aren't allowed to do that (unless explosives are involved). I don't know why anyone would think it's okay for a coach to do it. With a kid.

[bdh18]

I would never claim to know exactly what someone is thinking...let alone a dude like Toner...so I'm just speculating on why he went back...however I'm sure the all boys was a factor...he just wouldn't have been able to get away with his methods...more players would have rebelled & spoke back having either been embarrassed/humiliated in front of girl/young women peers &/or the been embarrassed by said females being in the realm of the stories & gossip resulting in the abuse be it on the practice/game field &/or classroom...having attended both an all boys catholic high school and then
(thankfully for my own social development)transferring & attending a good public High School...I kno almost for a fact...that the element of females changes the dynamics in many ways including the ways I mentioned above...& I'm sure Toner was very much aware as well...

[Luca]

There’s a reason there are all boys and all girls schools. The atmosphere is different. It’s supposed to be. That’s the purpose You handle guys differently than you do girls as far as discipline and behavior is concerned and it’s going to be a little more hardnosed at an all boys school. I don’t know why anybody would find that curious or unexpected.

I went to an all boys school. I played footbalI. I remember getting my facemask grabbed, getting hit over the helmet with a clipboard, getting yelled at and pushed when I screwed up, etc. if you can’t handle that sort of minor discipline then an all boys school - and perhaps football itself - probably isn’t the place for you to begin with and you made the right choice to leave.

I don’t know much about Coach Toner, and perhaps he was over the top. But the above behavior itself is something that a teenage male should be able to handle or learn to do so. I never considered my encounters “abuse “. It was called “discipline” and it served me and certainly my son well ....................Luca

[WantTheNFLBack714]

wasn't he involve with the Servite faculty since the early 70's?

[bdh18]

agreed...but since you weren't there for the specifics RE-Toner I don't know how your opinion applies?...like i said in original post...I had a few VERY discipline oriented coaches but there was a method and an endgame to get peak performance at game time while also teaching and instilling discipline...One example being NEVER embarrassed or belittled in front of crowds during games...Toner would do this....I know for a fact players played tight because they feared his wrath DURING games....the other harsher...better coaches i played for saved the coaching, yelling & teaching for the practice field &/or the locker room...similar to the John Wooden method...if you weren't prepared on the fundamentals by game time you weren't going to learn during the game(I'm not talking about in-game strategy or scouting of course)...as you said...to instill discipline...not to bully and belittle...there are nuances...the best coaches know how to get the best out of their players...what works for some doesn't work for others...I am specifically talking about Toner in my previous posts...and yes in my experience he was VERY "over the top"

[watchersince68]

John Q
We could certainly get into a debate on assault and battery, however you would be first to say this is not the forum for it. The problem is kids these days do not respect authority because there are no consequences for anything they do.
Everyone is so worried about about being politically correct and all that goes with it that there are no penalties for anything anyone does. Our children are so coddled that they turn into adults who bribe universities to even more coddle the next generation. I did not do kindergarten, so my first day in first grade I sat at my desk and cried all morning until Mrs Denahey came over grabbed me by the hair lift up my head ans slapped my across the face. I never cried again. It was hard but I learned a lesson.

[cruiser]

Wait a minute, watcher; you're saying you are in FIRST GRADE and the teacher lift up your face
by the HAIR and SLAPS you across the FACE? Huh, you don't think that's over the top a little,
quite different from getting swats on the butt, no?

BTW, I'm not sure Mr Bain (passed away) and Mrs Denahey would appreciate the comments
you made about them, just saying...

[watchersince68]

Cruiser
First, no I deserved it and she got the job done and I am probably a better person for it today.

Secondly I guess you missed my point, in my opinion they both did something that some kids should experience
today, consequences for their actions.

[Professor Fate]

I did not do kindergarten, so my first day in first grade I sat at my desk and cried all morning until Mrs Denahey came over grabbed me by the hair lift up my head ans slapped my across the face. I never cried again. It was hard but I learned a lesson.

Wow! We have a similar experience, Watcher. My family knew we were going to move to another state in a few months, so they didn't send me to kindergarten until we had moved. So I came into kindergarten a few months after all the other kids had finished their crying spells. So I was the only kid crying his eyes out.

But the similarity ends there. I didn't get slapped, but I did spend most of the first day in the principal's office.

[cruiser]

Cruiser
First, no I deserved it and she got the job done and I am probably a better person for it today.

Secondly I guess you missed my point, in my opinion they both did something that some kids should experience
today, consequences for their actions.

Well,in any case, every person has his/her own opinions of past/current/future life events
and I surely can't fault anyone on how they view the events and you are right probably the majority of
people (at least in California) under thirty five or so today have no clue about the consequences of the actions, they take...

On a side note, I do remember well, the butt swats in elementary school, (got a few myself),
never thought the sisters had a strong swing but, oh man, they did - what's interesting ; at open
house and registration, the school powers at be, would always inform new parents/guardians
of the new students coming in, that disciplinary corporal punishment would be handed out if
the student in question deserved it and if they were not in agreement with the school policy
they could take their kid(s) else where; there was probably a 99% parent(s) agreement on the
school policy.

There were always long waiting lists at catholic schools with parents trying to get their child
into the school(s)- catholic AND non-catholic!

[MrNiceguy]

The Servite Football program was pretty accurate about discipline issues percolating in the late 1980's I was witness to the pandamonium the place was like the wild west for a few years lots of fights and public insurrection by the student body which did include Football players as participants. Toners return put a swift end to all of that as he was small but carried a huge stick in the "War Wagon" his VW bus he drove to school everyday.

[longtimeobserver]

I went to public school and received "swats' from some of my male teachers. Way back they did it in the public
schools---it wasn't just the private schools. Toner for a time was studying to be a priest in the
Norbertine Order. At the time they were mostly the priests who escaped Hungary and Communism and came to
the US and ended up at St. Norbert's College in Wisconsin. They then came to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles
on the invitation of the Cardinal and ended up at Mater Dei shortly after the school opened. They opened the
Abbey in Silvarado Canyon and when they had enough vocations started St. Michael's Prep High School. There
were around 10 of them at one time at MD.

[WantTheNFLBack714]

it reminds me, that Holy Family Cathedral in Orange, has historically, long been one of the main feeder schools to Servite.

[longtimeobserver]

I don't think that you can classify Holy Family as one of the main feeder schools to Servite as many of their
graduates attended and attend Mater Dei. The main feeder schools to Servite have been from the North
Orange County---the Fullerton/Anaheim area and beyond. Whether that is still the case with tuition what
it is at both Servite and MD I don't know what Catholic schools would be considered a main feeder school.

[WantTheNFLBack714]

that is true though, one school I do know that has long been a huge feeder school for Mater Dei is St. John the Baptist in Costa Mesa, that's where Matt Leinart attended elementary, middle school, before Mater Dei.

[daddyooo]

in south OC the main feeder for SM is St Junipero Serra-1200 kids TK-8th and draws from the 4 parishes south of 133, north of Ortega Highway, and east of 5. The other main feeders aren't even Catholic schools-St Johns Episcopal (RSM) , St Mary's (Aliso Viejo), RSM Intermediate (1700 kids in 3 grades-a lot of SM kids are in public schools through 8th grade).

JSerra does get a decent but much smaller percentage of kids from SJS-and the biggest chunk of St Edwards, St Anne's (same founders as JSerra)-and generally kids from south of Crown Valley-west of 5. Ladera Ranch splits between SM/JSerra.

[daddyooo]

The Christian schools in south OC also send plenty of kids to SM/JSerra. Lots of Christian coaches at JSerra in particular. An interesting thing-the south county Christian/private schools (including St Margarets and St Marys) all play in the Parochial Athletic League (the school-based sports league run by the Diocese of Orange for the Catholic schools)-in north county they have their own association.

Think most of the Christian kids end up at JSerra/SM for athletic reasons. Not all-but it seems like most.