So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

SK80
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by SK80 »

I have never used the term to address the player or team as a "THUG". {FYI} The young player made an ill thought out action, he has been called on it. Time to move on and broad brushing the team or teams as thugs is not just either. Best to stop referencing and name calling and move.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by MDDad »

My older son spent the last four days snowboarding in Colorado. From the photos he sent, it looks like it was pretty cold, and most of the skiers and snowboarders were wearing ski masks. I wonder how all those thugs could afford the price of lift tickets at Vail and Breckenridge.
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Ramon
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Ramon »

Thank you for your honest and candid answer SK80...But my question was not intended for you...You've never referred to ASB or his team as a "Thug" or part of a "Thug Bowl"...Domingo & Buck's silence speaks volumes...Have a great rest of your weekend
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Domingo »

Ramon - have you been around the recent group of Mater Dei football parents in the past several years? Have you been around the group of non-Catholic parents who's sons now represent Mater Dei Football? Trust me when I say it's embarrassing being associated with this new THUG culture. There are many on this board who will verify exactly what I'm talking about including Roadrunner who I believe is from the Inland Empire himself. The culture in the football program is now the same as it is at any public school. This is not the Mater Dei we once knew. You recently had a wonderful Catholic Mater Dei family (mom is an MD graduate) who pulled their talented son (several D1 offers including USC and Notre Dame) from the nation's #1 ranked football team for one reason and one reason only. They didn't want their son in that "new and ugly" environment. You ever seen more unsportsmanlike penalties, cheap shots and foul language from a Mater Dei football team than you have from this year's team? The ski mask episode I agree was a dumb mistake by an otherwise very bright kid who was probably told to pull off such a stunt by his father but it has come to symbolize this program - the players and the parents. This is not Mater Dei Football. This has never been Mater Dei Football. You know, I know it and I think Bruce knows it deep in his heart as well.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Professor Fate »

This discussion is very reminiscent of something that has appeared in Servite football programs covering the history of Friar football. It is about a decision made by the Servite administration back after 1988. For context, Servite had just completed a successful 10-3 season, an Angelus League Co-Championship, a semi-final appearance, and had taken a 14-13-1 lead in the series with Mater Dei. Here is the quote:

Servite was winning, but something was missing...something that makes Servite football distinctive. It showed especially on the lower level programs, and it was percolating its way up.

As one observer put it:

"There were some discipline problems. Here, you're supposed to live a certain way, and act a certain way. Some things were in total disarray, and that was indicative of how people were not paying attention to the football program."

That observer was Larry Toner.
...Toner was asked to return to get Servite football back on track.


Servite's won/loss record suffered a bit by the decision, but there are more important things involved in teaching and molding young men, and Servite doesn't regret having made that decision.

I leave it to those who read this post to consider whether or not there is any lesson to be applied to present day Mater Dei, and/or Bosco.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by cruiser »

Yes, to a certain degree that was the case when the old alumni and administration got
Toner back but then years of disappointments and Servite dropping to D5, did
not sit well for the SAME alumni and FB MONEY MAKERS that had wanted him back, thus
the pushing out of Toner by the Servite administration to other avenues for the FB program, no?
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Professor Fate »

I can't say one way or another for certain, but I am inclined to agree with you.

An interesting point to consider, relating to my previous post. Among the incoming freshman for the first year under Toner, was AJ Gass. He therefore was a product of the renewed emphasis on discipline that Coach Toner brought in. In view of this, it is not surprising that he took issue with the discipline problems presented by the St. Browns and their father. The same family that is now at MD and is right in the middle of this so-called "Thug" culture controversy. Interesting, no?
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Ramon
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Ramon »

I think it highly inappropriate to call kids and their parents "Thugs"...Kids make mistakes on and off the field...To attribute that behavior as thugish is wrong...I still have yet to see firm examples of players and parents cultivating a "Thug Culture"...I only see broad generalities masked as proof
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Omar Bongo »

SK80 wrote:Ramon, the term "THUG" is an action not a race.
Nice try, but I doubt even you really believe that. It's glaringly obvious that's exactly what it's intended to be. The "thug" dogwhistle is a weaponized extension of the more subtle but equally racist "inner city kid" label incorporating a well-placed stab into the soft, suburban white underbelly of insecurity and fear- "They are here, and this is what they do. Be afraid, be very afraid"...

One could argue it's a reflection of the current social climate, but as a strategy to stereotype and divide it's really nothing new...as the saying goes, everything old is new again.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by cruiser »

OUCH!
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Red »

Damn Omar, I'm liking you more and more. =D>
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by SK80 »

Yes Omar everything old is new again... and adopted by lets us say a culture, a race if you want to get down, dirty and hardcore. A "THUG" or a "MOBSTER" is a PERP. Because some on the outside use the reference does not make me, nor many of of us accusers of certain demographics, races or creeds as such.

"One could argue it's a reflection of the current social climate, but as a strategy to stereotype and divide it's really nothing new...as the saying goes, everything old is new again." ~ So says Omar

Yet President Obama said the following.....

On April 28, 2015, President Barack Obama referred to a collection of citizens from Baltimore, Maryland as “criminals and thugs” in response to a question about the recent rebellion that broke following the death of Freddie Gray while in police custody. The use of the term “thug” by President Obama became the zenith of the word's use to characterize primarily individuals and groups of Black males.

So stop with your F'n white underbelly BS.

Most of your replies require and bah-da-boom drum roll but this one deserve a stage left exit. If you want to debate "THUG" or as Tupac Shakur writes and stated..... "“Thug muthaf*ckas don’t die, we get high, we multiply, muthaf*cka!”) lets get it on. With one finger I can point to whom anointed black culture as .......

Let us go back for review..., President Obana used the term "THUG" for a group of people and their ACTIONS as I so pointed out in and earlier post.....
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Omar Bongo
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Omar Bongo »

Keep digging SK...and watch your belly
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Omar Bongo »

Oh, yeah, about the topic...I see this game as a tossup. Bosco is much improved, the QB has settled in and key players are back from injuries. It will take MD's best effort of the season to prevail...
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Professor Fate »

It's a shame they both can't lose. I hope SJ Bosco wins it so neither team would have a chance at the mythical national championship, and the bonus would be that MD doesn't get a shot at DLS.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Master OC »

Total embarrassment to the program. I am shocked that we would allow these thugs and their “Cane Powder” on the campus.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by Playthegame »

Red, if the current paradigm has you liking Omar’s post, then it’s over. Thanks but no thanks, and I am sure Mr. “loves to Hear himself talk” will continue to weigh in with his forecasts that always turn out to be the exact opposite of reality.

#Racecard
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by not4u13 »

While it is true that "thug" does evoke an image of a violent but petty criminal, in more recent times it is used almost exclusively to describe blacks and often blacks that don't behave the same way. They may have different social constructs and may even be taught to "act big" to survive. Make no mistake though. The term thug has racial implications, whether intended or not. Omar hit the nail on the head.

I'm not part of the MD program, but I think I get the gist of the issue here. These kids don't act the same way. They walk with a swagger and talk big. They test boundaries rather than conform. They play with passion that borders disrespect (and sometimes crosses that line.) They have talent and they know it and they show it. I'm guessing from the discussion that they are also predominantly black kids.

According to GreatSchools, the MD population is 42% white and only 3% black. That reflects the general demographics of Orange County, which appears to be 41% white and only 2% black (censusreporter.org). If there are problems adjusting to the new makeup of the team, maybe racial differences really a part of the issue and maybe it's about time there was more racial diversity at MD.
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by frankieboy1 »

Mater Dei is also 40% Hispanic and 10% Asian. Don't think diversity is the problem-school is reflective of OC as a whole.

Nor is the school just for rich kids...
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Re: So, moving on - MD/BOSCO

Post by cruiser »

MD is the most diverse private HS in the entire OC, btw; 20% of the students come from
Santa Ana, the vast majority are on financial aid and other monetary assistance.
You see the Benz's, BMW's, Range Rovers, Caddie SUV's, etc., in the parking lot
BUT you also see kids before and after school at the bus stops near the school,
to come or go home after school or after an activity after school - MD is a very unique
type of private school.

And I'm betting not a lot of that happens at SM, Jserra, Servite or OLU!
(but,maybe at Bosco)
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