New rules for contact football?

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watchersince68
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New rules for contact football?

Post by watchersince68 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:04 pm

Over the course of this season there have been some calls in MD games that have been baffling to me. So have there been rule changes this last year I have not heard about, if so please enlighten me. This last game Bru McCoy threw what used to be a very legal block on I think Kennely face to face but brutal hit and McCoy was flagged. Funa, I think
in the JS game hit the QB three feet in bounds, out of bounds. A clean hit but hard. There have been calls in many games that certainly seem to have been legal a year ago but not so much this year, what has changed?

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Zebra
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by Zebra » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:13 pm

Yes it was. The defenseless player connotation has been given to all players on the field. So those old "de-cleaters" are now illegal unless they lead with open hands. The crackbacks against a player that cannot see the block coming is illegal also. The game has changed ...
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watchersince68
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by watchersince68 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:26 pm

Zebra
Thank you. So if you hit a player face to face no question but de cleet him it is illegal? Funa also hit with a shoulder pad
and the pushed with his hands, is that also no bueno? It really appears the refs are expecting to calls fouls before the play is made lately.

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thebull
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by thebull » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:03 pm

Lots of reactionary calls this year. Refs not actually witnessing the hit, but only hearing it and seeing the result. Because there is no way to review the hit, refs throw the flag erring on the side of caution.

It honestly sucks, but I don't know what the solution is without video review...

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by joefutbol » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm

watchersince68 wrote:Zebra
Thank you. So if you hit a player face to face no question but de cleet him it is illegal
Well, if by face-to-face you mean he saw the hit coming .0001 seconds before contact, then I guess you could. The hit should have been a flag last year, as well, but is 100% illegal under the new rules this year.

TheFan
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by TheFan » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:16 pm

On any crack or peel back block, if you do not lead with your hands it will be called. POE with refs this season.
Seen it called several times this year. Those MD calls were correct by the officials.
Smart coaches teach their kids to basically set a basketball screen with arms out, avoid taking kid to the ground or even the appearance. I saw a kid take two steps and make contact with a defenseless player and get called.
I am ok with this rule.

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by TheFan » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:18 pm

The other two big changes in the HS rules this season in my opinion, were the DB do not have to turn back and look anymore when the ball is in the air (Los Al mastered this one) and onside kicks, the ball can not strike the ground and go straight up....the goal there is you can not wipe out the onside kick receiver.

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Zebra
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by Zebra » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:12 am

The Fan is correct. Spot on.

thebull says we are reactionary and watcher says anticipatory .. which is it? Both actually

@watcher I'd have to see the play, descriptions are very subjective. As for anticipating fouls, on a pick return or a punt return, I can usually see the blindside hit developing and I get ready to flag it. A shoulder can also be criteria for a blindside block, the basketball screen is the best play. It's up to the player delivering the hit to do it legally. The player has to see the hit coming or it's illegal now. Player safety is paramount in the newer rule sets being rolled out on all levels.

@The bull, I don't know where you get your information. For 35 years as a multisport official, I was trained, any new officials I mentor and most class instructors we have are trained to never call a foul you do not see. We're not trained to officiate by sound .. in any sport. You may have some but it's a very small minority. The act of fouls being called is reactionary so I'm unclear on what you mean by that. We see a foul, the reaction is to flag it and assess the penalty. Some fouls get peer reviewed immediately if one of the other refs saw the play and has input. I have no problem picking up a flag if one of my guys comes in and give a different perspective. We do talk about our calls on the field. And let's face it, video replay gets it wrong also.

I may as well start now ... we are recruiting officials. We don't have enough, so if anyone wants to start the training in the spring, work passing leagues for free and summer workouts, attend weekly meetings and exams, undergoes game observations and peer criticism and also desires to spend days and evenings on Thursdays, Fridays and/or Saturdays outdoors having complete strangers, players and coaches that may or may not have any clue what rule set is being used at the time, yelling at you and exhibiting some ridiculous behavior .. hit me up. You'll love it or hate it, there is no between.
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by watchersince68 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:59 am

Zebra
Both are available on youtube, I will try and find them and give you a time to look at. Thanks again.

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by MDDad » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:02 am

Zebra wrote:The player has to see the hit coming or it's illegal now.
The safety concerns behind that rule are obvious, but it raises the question why blindside quarterback sacks are still legal.

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by watchersince68 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:17 am

Zebra


Funa hit on QB 2:39 mark



McCoy hit 52:15 mark
Slide into QB @ 19:39 mark

Tell me what you think I would be interested in your opinion.
Last edited by John Q. Public on Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: pushed the video button

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Zebra
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by Zebra » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:14 pm

That is a good question MDDad ... :eh?:
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

2002tony
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by 2002tony » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:40 pm

watcher I have watched these over and over and I know I have seen not quite the same thing obviously but I think what is in play here is that the QB is on his way out of bounds and he is no long running upfield and even as i look at it from a video point of view which in real time the eye may see it a little differently , the qb looks to just starting to slow down a fraction of a second before the he is hit very hard and not looking to be hit as again he is about to step out of bounds.

I have seen two flags called on a defensive player who pushed the ball carrier who was in bounds as the ball carrier was clearly running out of bounds and got flagged for "unnecessary" hit (hard push) personal foul flag. I think it may have had to also do with the player slowing down and not running upfield but just out of bounds. There is also the issue that just as the ball carrier is slowing down were players in front of him on the sidelines that he was slowing down for so not to run into them. I think it is just the way the official saw it from his minds eye in real time and perception/view point and not the video.

I think the hit on Kennedy to me would have never been flagged before as when you and I were always taught you need to have your head on a swivel and taking a peek ahead of you all the time so you didnt get that kind of a hit, now the refs flag that kind of hit as Zebra has pointed out . So for to me, when I saw it live and even now when I watched the review that is just a tough call. I am not so sure I would have thrown that flag.

But now to what the Zerba has said and I can understand what they are trying to do, as i looked at the video again it was not a face to face hit but more of a ear hole shot. Kennedy never looked and his head was turned, and until the hit was actually made his body was not "facing" McCoy either ( look at Mitchelle in front of him, they both have the same angle of pursuit and same body position and neither of them would have seen McCoy), I think from the refs point of view in real time looking from the other direction that may look like a clear crackback block.

I was in the booth and had the same angle as the video and I did not think it was a block that I would have flagged as I stated above, but I can understand why the flag was thrown now. One other thing that as I look at the video and watch Kennedy fall away, that kinda looks like McCoy led with his helmet into Kennedys ear hole which could have been a helmet to helmet kind of a call. just my :2cents: from once being a ref myself.

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by watchersince68 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:51 pm

2002
Is the LB supposed to assume the Qb is eventually going to run out of bounds? Even the video shows it several times
because there may have been a question. There are other views but in this one you see the QB running upfield and just before the hit he oh **** and pauses to turn right. He is 3 feat in bounds.

In McCoys hit is he supposed to make sure the prospective tackler is looking right at him?

Not trying to be difficult but it has been a season of flags that may not all be deserved.

Playthegame
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by Playthegame » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:55 pm

But if Kennedy is looking at ball carrier, McCoy is coming from behind, official is in position to see if #22 saw Bru coming or not...so nowadays you have to lay off the clean up hit and be sure you are leading with shoulder or hands if contact unavoidable...Helmet to helmet as well so new paradigm...

2002tony
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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by 2002tony » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:06 pm

I know you are not trying to be difficult and I am not trying to dismiss your view either. We both have seen some flags that I dont think we would have seen before or even in My case I would have thrown a flag before. I was just saying I can see for sure why the flag was thrown on McCoy to what the refs are now trying to elmenate with the crackback rule definition as it stands right now.

The QB , or ball carrier in the flags I had questioned of being pushed out of bounds may have been just the way the ref saw it to his point of view. In the clip you had us look at - to me it looks like he is heading out of bounds and that may have been what to ref's opinion was at the time as well.

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by Playthegame » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:44 pm

I was only commenting on the hit in the MV MD game to be specific...

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Re: New rules for contact football?

Post by watchersince68 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:13 pm

Thanks always appreciate a good opnion

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