High School Sports are being Ruined

Bick
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by Bick »

Professor Fate wrote: Leagues should have agreed upon limits. If a La Mirada or a La Habra ignored them they could be voted out of the league to find another home if they can. If not...freelance.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point - especially given the different sports each school competes in.
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Professor Fate
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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It can be limited to football, or whatever sport in which the violations occurred.
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TheFan
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by TheFan »

Lets take HBUHS...kids can go to any HS they want essentially. Plus the district allows outside kids to come in especially as freshman. So many teams have had kids from GG, Seal Beach, Cypress, Costa Mesa, NP etc...Bick you are a pretty smart guy ......you certainly understand a club coach will make darn sure the kids from his program flourish to make the issue a self fulfilling...versus a kid playing for another club. Basketball, VB, Softball, Water Polo are the worse...
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by Bick »

Prof - You might be challenged to get the other teams in the league to find a game to schedule during weeks 6-10 if one of their league members gets the boot...unless they're OK with only playing 9 games.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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Professor Fate wrote:If a La Mirada or a La Habra ignored them they could be voted out of the league to find another home if they can.
Professor, does it bother you at all that over the last four years Servite would be "voted out" before Mater Dei, or shall we tweak the imaginary rules a little bit to make sure that doesn't happen?

If the limit were set at three or four transfers per varsity roster, almost every school in the Southern Section would be forced into the Open Division.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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TheFan wrote:Lets take HBUHS...kids can go to any HS they want essentially. Plus the district allows outside kids to come in especially as freshman. So many teams have had kids from GG, Seal Beach, Cypress, Costa Mesa, NP etc...Bick you are a pretty smart guy ......you certainly understand a club coach will make darn sure the kids from his program flourish to make the issue a self fulfilling...versus a kid playing for another club. Basketball, VB, Softball, Water Polo are the worse...
I'm not saying they aren't influential. Speaking solely for myself and a few others I know whose kids played on club teams, there's no way I'm driving across town each day to take my 13-14 year old superstar to high school for the next 2-3 years. And I'm not moving either. I'd say the vast majority of folks feel the same way. Again, I think we're talking about less than 2% of HS athletes that fall into that boat. For some reason unbeknownst to me, they and their parents have convinced themselves the extra 10+ D1 offers you get from a high profile school over a lesser one is worth that sacrifice.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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MDDad wrote: Professor, does it bother you at all that over the last four years Servite would be "voted out" before Mater Dei, or shall we tweak the imaginary rules a little bit to make sure that doesn't happen?
No it doesn't. Whatever the eventual limit would be set at, ALL schools should stay under it.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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Bick wrote:I'm not saying they aren't influential. Speaking solely for myself and a few others I know whose kids played on club teams, there's no way I'm driving across town each day to take my 13-14 year old superstar to high school for the next 2-3 years. And I'm not moving either. I'd say the vast majority of folks feel the same way. Again, I think we're talking about less than 2% of HS athletes that fall into that boat. For some reason unbeknownst to me, they and their parents have convinced themselves the extra 10+ D1 offers you get from a high profile school over a lesser one is worth that sacrifice.
I know a family that has switched club teams 5 times and the kid is only 13. I don't even know how many times the older kid has switched. --:--
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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Professor Fate wrote:No it doesn't. Whatever the eventual limit would be set at, ALL schools should stay under it.
Well, here are the number of transfers on a few random varsity rosters from last season. Where shall we draw the line?

23 - Orange Lutheran
21 - Corona Centennial
20 - Calabasas
19 - St. John Bosco
16 - Servite
15 - Norco
15 - Upland
14 - JSerra
13 - Orange
11 - Santa Margarita
10 - Mater Dei
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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That would have to be negotiated, but all schools would have to stay under it.

p.s. Servite is going to be a lot lower now that 5 transfers in, have transferred out. That's going to drop us way down on your yearly tally.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by TheFan »

Bick, So you agree a club coach coaching his sport at the feeder HS/District/Area is conflict of interest, it is not hard to realize how the coach could abuse the situation their financial gain...
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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Professor Fate wrote:p.s. Servite is going to be a lot lower now that 5 transfers in, have transferred out. That's going to drop us way down on your yearly tally.
That depends. It's likely that the return of Troy Thomas may have some pull, and the five transfers in who are now transfers out could get replaced by five new transfers in.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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But now we have room under the transfer cap. --:-- Plus six others have graduated, so we're down to 5.
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Bick
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by Bick »

jb914 wrote: I know a family that has switched club teams 5 times and the kid is only 13. I don't even know how many times the older kid has switched.
I had a dog that used to chase his tail for about 5 minutes straight. Some people like, and are willing to pay for, the ability to change.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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TheFan wrote:Bick, So you agree a club coach coaching his sport at the feeder HS/District/Area is conflict of interest, it is not hard to realize how the coach could abuse the situation their financial gain...
I'm pretty sure I said they could be influential. Conflict of interest...not unless abused.

Assuming people are capable of determining what's in their own best interests as I believe they are, I don't consider this to be a real issue. If a coach pulls the shenanigans you outlined previously, he's likely going to be dealing with a bunch of angry parents or a mass exodus from his club team. He'll be held accountable one way or another.

I think the bigger issue with what I think you are proposing (not allowing coaches from club teams to coach HS sports), is that it further limits an already dwindling pool of individuals willing to work for .50 / hour coaching kids - assuming they're even getting a stipend. Net losers here would be...the kids, right?
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by Red »

The fact is, MD had to grin and bear it for years when MV, OLU, CC, Servite and other schools were getting good transfers and winning it all. Mater Dei gets a couple of transfers, wins it all, it becomes a problem.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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Bick wrote:I had a dog that used to chase his tail for about 5 minutes straight. Some people like, and are willing to pay for, the ability to change.
You can put your shoes in the oven, but, it doesn't make'em biscuits. :wink:
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

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jb914 wrote: You can put your shoes in the oven, but, it doesn't make'em biscuits.
Good one...I'll remember it.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by not4u13 »

Great thread. A few thoughts.

1) While Texas coaches may be making a stand against club teams, there is a bit of a secret. The Allen Eagles have an entire development program using a network of coaches that builds talent to feed their team. The number of kids that are signed up for football is nearly 500. Heck, their marching band is well over 700. The point though is that it is not uncommon for a High School coach to "run" programs down the youth level. They cannot be directly involved, but their are links through the coaching staff. I can't prove it, but it is talked about all the time when people ask what they need to do to make the team.

2) There is big money in scholarships and big reputations with the ranking of recruits and the publicity of National Signing Day. This has caused a lot of parents to go crazy in what they do to get their kids "ready". What started as a few stories of kids finding a way out of the inner city through sports has grown into a big business of private training, transfers and tutors. Parents start kids out very early and invest heavily in both time and money. I watched a Dad pull his kid from one school and get him transferred to another school where he sat out just so he could get into a few games his senior year under the promise the "new" school would start him at pitcher. He wanted his get to get good quality "looks" from colleges to get him that scholarship. The whole plan backfired. They had no idea what they were doing, had no support system, missed deadlines, got no looks and never played at the college level. He was good, but not THAT good. All the trainers kept telling him he was, because (speculation) they wanted their money.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but as long as there is money on the table, things are not going to get better.
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Re: High School Sports are being Ruined

Post by downtothewire »

As others have said, HS sports isn't ruined. Out of the 550+ SS schools, 70+ LA City schools, 200+ SD schools, how many are we really talking about being affected? 10% maybe. MAYBE. The other 90% of schools are hardly affected. We are talking about the top of the food chain, and let's face it, no one cares about the other 90% except as an occasional feel good story or if you have a personal connection to the school. Orange and Katella have absolutely nothing to worry about when it comes to Mater Dei, because there was a slim to none chance that they were going to get any of those athletes anyway.

Football stopped being "just" a sport years ago. It is a business like any other business, and the major problem is, as Josh Rosen pointed out, its a billion dollar business funneled through our country's educational system. Why is that you ask? To benefit the schools, mainly. Not the athletes, not even the sport itself. If you want to get back to good old fashioned "playing for the love of community and school" (and I mean all across the HS sport landscape), you're going to have to remove the top of the food chain, that 10%, out of HS football and move to a club ball environment.

Otherwise the system is fine the way it is. For those who don't want to compete in D1 or D2 because its too cutthroat, its simple. Don't recruit, don't accept transfers, take whatever kids you so happen to get, and the rest will take care of itself.
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