No more playing not true high schools

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jb914
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by jb914 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:40 pm

jb914 wrote:
I didn't say colleges, I said the NCAA.
by cruiser » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:28 pm
Yes, you did my friend,apparently the topic took a wrong turn!
This is what the blockchains call a fork in the thread. :rockon:

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Fordama
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Fordama » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:03 pm

TheFan wrote:Fordama, Please clarify what you are saying, you are a pretty smart guy, all college athletics programs ? .....
And that group of universities represent only a small sample of four year colleges and universities.

It takes some time to compile the figures, but the latest report to be found is that only 24 of the FBS schools had athletic programs with revenues exceeding expenditures. That was in 2014. In 2013 it was 20 programs.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/med ... l-minority

Here are some easy to look at figures comparing revenue to expenses in 2015-2016.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Now as far as just football alone goes, the numbers seem to be pretty similar. In 2010, only 20 of the 120 DI programs did better than breaking even.

I'm a big believer that there are great benefits to students and schools in intercollegiate athletics--but profits ain't one of them benefits!
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Fordama
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Fordama » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:05 pm

Playthegame wrote:What is the motive then, if not for profit?
Umm, it's kind of a good thing for the student athletes, yes?
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Playthegame » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:09 pm

How so?

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jb914
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by jb914 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 am

by Playthegame » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:09 pm
How so?
well, the athletes do can get a full or partial scholarship in many cases

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Fordama
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Fordama » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:35 am

Hard work, leadership, followership, dedication, teamwork, selflessness, determination, discipline..etc. Benefits they can use their entire lifetime.That's the quick, short list.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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John Q. Public
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:02 am

You mean, like... the reason sports are offered in schools in the first place?
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by TheFan » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:13 am

I agree with you Fordama. I will keep saying this but I look to hire athletes whenever possible, if all things equal because of the very topics you brought up.

1) Football at the Big 5 conference level is clearly a money maker
2) Public accounting differs from private, how overhead is allocated, and some public entities never run a surplus on purpose or re-allocated to a zero sum game, so those number are fuzzy number. Learning how to read governmental accounting is an forensic art.

I think we should look to other states that allow a lot less club or private coaches, such as Texas and HS sports are thriving. Transfer rules are tighter etc...I really think the MD lawsuits changed the game and irony may ruin it

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Fordama » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:30 am

Football at the Big 5 level is profitable overall, but not necessarily for the schools. Some of the people associated with bowls are sucking the money out as well. There are bowl "directors" making six and seven digit paychecks for "directing" a bowl game.

I agree with what you said about the rules in Texas being the way to go for high schools. The concept of kids working outside of high school to improve as athletes is basically a good idea, but predatory actions by club "coaches" really can sour the entire issue.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by downtothewire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:53 am

TheFan wrote: I think we should look to other states that allow a lot less club or private coaches, such as Texas and HS sports are thriving.
A full-on club environment would remove that transfer/recruiting/mercenary element out of high school football altogether. Purists should be all for it.

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:28 pm

TheFan wrote: ...I really think the MD lawsuits changed the game and irony may ruin it
Bingo! And no, I am not TheFan.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:43 pm

downtothewire wrote: Purists should be all for it.
I see your point, but it doesn't do much for me. I root for those representing the name on the front of the jersey. A club team made up of players with nothing in common but a love of playing the game, is not enough to interest me. I've never been big on all-star teams, or all-star games like the Pro Bowl for example.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by sugarcoat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:12 pm

Professor, are you sugarcoating the situation? I have a few questions. "Nothing in common but a love of playing the game" - don't they have the name "on the front of the jersey" in common? If the name on the front is so important, why would they leave it? Do you really find a team and not individuals building their resumes?

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:35 pm

If I understand your question, yes they have the name on the front in common on a club team. But I would have no ties to any club team, so it might be fine for others, but it's of no interest to me .

If I understand what you are asking in your last sentence, I root for the team as a whole, and appreciate the individuals that represent the school, and the teammates they love.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by downtothewire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:04 pm

Professor Fate wrote:I see your point, but it doesn't do much for me. I root for those representing the name on the front of the jersey. A club team made up of players with nothing in common but a love of playing the game, is not enough to interest me. I've never been big on all-star teams, or all-star games like the Pro Bowl for example.
Then it sounds perfect for you. You would no longer have to support a program that caters to the mercenary athlete if they all elected to join their club team instead of a high school. And they would given that they wouldn't have the restrictions on transfers and recruiting. High school teams would truly be composed of kids that want to be there for all the reasons you posit. The idea behind clubs is to get those big time superstars away from regular schools and let the real students play for the love of their school.

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:09 pm

Okay, I see what you're saying. I was assuming there would be no more high school team to support.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:18 pm

downtothewire wrote: The idea behind clubs is to get those big time superstars away from regular schools and let the real students play for the love of their school.
What's a "real student"?
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:26 pm

The ones that ride the bench at Mater Dei.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:36 pm

Thanks, One-Note Willie. If you're interested, I'm sure Luca can recommend a proctologist who can extract Mater Dei from your psyche
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by MDDad » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 am

Omar Bongo wrote:What's a "real student"?
Professor Fate wrote:The ones that ride the bench at Mater Dei.
That's a pretty asinine thing to say, Professor. In the past ten years, all-star players like Ben Humphreys, David Bright, Jed Smith, Curtis Robinson, J.T. Daniels and Amon-Ra St. Brown have all had GPA's of 4.0 or higher. And Matt Barkley, Joseph Schmidt, Gerran Brown, Malik McMorris, Quentin Lake, Osiris St. Brown, Tommy Brown and Shakobe Harper, among many others, have been just a tenth or two behind. Since none of those kids "rode the bench", I guess they wouldn't be considered "real students" in your book.

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