No more playing not true high schools

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Professor Fate
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:18 pm

Some funny stuff there Templar. Should I change "red lines?" Too much for you? :lol:

As to consequences, I guess that will be up to me to decide when and if the time comes, isn't it?

Funny that you mention Maximilian, I originally tried, but couldn't find a photo of him in that friar disguise to use as my avatar.

Finally, I obviously get under your skin. Can't get yourself to just ignore me? So sorry. Two words Templar...Ther apy. :mrgreen:
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by ventura » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:55 pm

I'm with the Professor. We're probably from the same era, probably similar in our love of the high school game and our respective schools. If Thomas takes Servite the recruit route, which IMO he has no choice but to do if he wants to come close to competing, I imagine Fate will choke it down and keep following his Friars with a compromised zeal. I checked out of pro sports decades ago. I always loved the high school game. I checked out of the pros back when athletes started changing to rival teams, and strikes screwed up seasons - circa late 60's, picking up steam thereafter. As a devoted spectator, especially of football, that just intensified the love of HSFB. It's wrecked now for my taste.

Fate and Servite have two choices - join the circus or drop to a low level. It's plain dangerous to field mediocre teams against the elites. If I was a player I'd hate it, if I was a parent I'd keep my son out of it, especially if he was to see lots of playing time.

Everyone has their own reasons for liking high school sports. For me it has always been the sense of community and that belief your home team might just get that magical season and beat the odds. A couple great athletes leading the way, a solid core following, and a couple of crazy over-achievers adding some magic. Soul.

The Trinity has very little soul now. Catholic irony.

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:19 pm

Right on the nose, Ventura. I especially like you third paragraph. Servite has never wanted to be Mater Dei. We were happy to be the underdog, knowing that from time to time, a great class would arrive to pull upsets and bring championships.

But the changes in recruiting rules and recruiting practices has made all that impossible now. I don't want to play the game the way Mater Dei does. I'd rather take the other road, and join a league full of teams that also don't want to play that recruiting game.

What has happened to high school football, especially since the Diocesan lawsuit to benefit Mater Dei's recruiting practices, has led to chaos. Teams are refusing to play super teams made up of all-stars from multiple schools.

I now support a public/private split, which will help the public schools, but not help private schools, who don't want to go the way today's super teams are going. If that means breaking up the Trinity, and Mission Leagues so be it. I know Loyola doesn't want to recruit other team''s players. Crespi under Thomas didn't do that either.

Put all the all-star teams in their own leagues, and form new leagues of like minded "real high school athletic teams.
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OC Sports
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by OC Sports » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:24 pm

Professor,

Thanks for replying.

Allow me to ask the question again while being more precise.

Assuming (hypothetically) that all the 2017 football transfers MD received were juniors and had instead transfer to Servite, would you oppose these transfers with the same enthusiasm?

Let’s also assume that they are all 5 star athletes, and all were willing to satisfy all the academic rigors Servite requires of them.

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:28 pm

OC Sports wrote: would you oppose these transfers with the same enthusiasm?
Interesting choice of words to describe my feelings on the subject. "Enthusiasm" just doesn't fit. It implies I'm glad to have a chance to attack MD on this subject. That is the exact opposite of the truth. I'd love it if I had no such reason to complain.

Yes, if they were 5* athletes that should have stayed loyal to their old school and their teammates, I would condemn the moves. I've stated that before. Don't forget, part of my complaint is that it is disloyal behavior by the receiving school, because it is a slap in the face to the loyal kids, who deserved the chance that they worked so hard for, (some for three years)...to have their turn as the starter.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:01 pm

Let me put that last sentence another way.

The school that may, or may not, accept these high profile stars, has two choices.

1. Throw their own hard working, loyal kids under the bus (or bench, if you prefer), and possibly win more games, or,
2. Treat their own hard working, loyal kids with the respect they deserve, and possibly win fewer games.

To no one in particular: Which one of those paths is your school taking?
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by MDDad » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:28 pm

Professor Fate wrote:I'd love it if I had no such reason to complain.
On the other hand, most grownups at some point just make the decision to stop whining.

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:43 pm

Sounds like surrender to me.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Playthegame » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:33 pm

MDDad wrote: On the other hand, most grownups at some point just make the decision to stop whining.
So don't whine when others whine other wise you are not a grownup...
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Playthegame » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:54 pm

templar83 wrote: Red lines, truly? I gotta ask, what would the fallout be if this junction to which you refer is compromised? I mean the metaphor implies serious consequences. Would you, for instance, once again change your screen name in yet another attempt to reinvent yourself? Or perhaps you could commit to be slightly less pontifical in your views of the state of high school football. How about a promise to seek professional help in dealing with a life that apparently peaked in high school leaving you so bitter over the decades-long inability of your alma mater to approach the continuing success of its chief rival that your bitterness has turned your golden years to bronze. Even your current screen name and picture references a movie in which your character is a buffoonish villain ( assisted at one point by his sidekick dressed as, you guessed it, a small Friar ) unable to compete with his chief rival . At any rate, just curious as to what exactly the threat entails...
Some one is a bit of a narcissist...quite taken with his own cleverness and far too concerned that someone could have an opinion....I'm pretty...oh so pretty! Hey look at me I'm a winner and you're not...cause we pay by different rules and you don't!....But if you do like us?...Then you won't be able to bash our program...besides that...we can outspend you!
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Omar Bongo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:25 pm

templar83 wrote: Red lines, truly?...I mean the metaphor implies serious consequences.
Give it some time, templar...when fall rolls around I think we'll see it's more of a "pink partition" than a red line
ventura wrote: If Thomas takes Servite the recruit route, which IMO he has no choice but to do if he wants to come close to competing, I imagine Fate will choke it down and keep following his Friars with a compromised zeal.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Omar Bongo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:26 pm

downtothewire wrote: "Real" students = All the non-mercenaries. Does that clear it up for everyone? Great. Carry on.
Thanks for responding, but no, it doesn't. What's a "non-mercenary"?
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by downtothewire » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 pm

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the term "mercenary athlete".

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Omar Bongo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:01 pm

No. What's a"mercenary athlete"?
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by downtothewire » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:18 am

I believe the term "mercenary athlete" was coined during the Olympics maybe 2004 or 2008. The concept is this: athletes who compete for countries for whom they've had little to zero affiliation. For instance, Jordan Clarkson of the Lakers. He was born in Florida, grew up in Texas, went to college in Oklahoma and Missouri, but temporarily was on Team Philippines before his Lakers commitments forced him to drop. He is half Filipino and had a Philippines passport and that was good enough to make him a member of the national team. In the case of many Olympic mercenaries, they compete for countries they have never lived in for more than a few weeks to gain the necessary naturalization. This was all done to improve that country's chances of winning, by improving their roster with better athletes than the current athletes that the country in question possessed. You also see this phenomenon taking place in world soccer.

So it's the same concept in high school.... an athlete attends a school, not out of loyalty, not out of true beliefs in the creeds of the school, and has no desire to get accustomed to or embrace these things, and make them apart of his identity. He's there for the sports, and ONLY the sports. When the sports avenue dries up, the coach leaves, or when a better opportunity comes along somewhere else, he's outta there. He moves on to the next school.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:54 pm

Thank You, Downtothewire. Especially for that last paragraph. See, he gets it.

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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Omar Bongo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:50 pm

downtothewire wrote: an athlete attends a school, not out of loyalty, not out of true beliefs in the creeds of the school, and has no desire to get accustomed to or embrace these things, and make them apart of his identity
Thanks for answering, but I'm not sure what you say here has any relationship to reality when it comes to high school students either today or in the past. I mean, since when has "true beliefs in the creeds of the school" played any part at all in which school a parent chooses to enroll his or her child in?

I don't know where the concept of "loyalty" enters into the equation either. 90% of high school students in America attend public schools where they have little or no choice of which school they attend...neither the student nor the school has much choice in the matter. The remaining 10% enroll in privates which offer educational services and operate on a for-profit basis. Where does or should "loyalty" play a part, if parents or students feel they are not receiving the educational experience they were promised at enrollment? Aren't schools which fail to provide the experience promised being "disloyal" as well? Are all students who transfer for personal reasons to be labeled "mercenaries", or just student athletes?

As for the "beliefs" or "creeds" of schools, they are all generally the same, are they not? I can't think of a single case where a friend or relative has chosen their child's school on that basis. I sure didn't. Nor do I have the foggiest recollection of what my own school's "creed" was, or if I ever knew what it was is the first place...do you?

As for some basing their choice on certain academic or athletic programs offered at particular schools, I see nothing wrong with that, do you? Science at one school, agriculture at another, swimming and water polo at a third. Are you against school choice in general, or only for football?

It seems that what you really take exception to are students who transfer multiple times for personal reasons. Are you in favor of limits on transferring based on the sport, or on the number of times? How would that work?
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:29 pm

Omar Bongo wrote: As for the "beliefs" or "creeds" of schools, they are all generally the same, are they not? I can't think of a single case where a friend or relative has chosen their child's school on that basis. I sure didn't. Nor do I have the foggiest recollection of what my own school's "creed" was, or if I ever knew what it was is the first place...do you?
by AsIfYouKnew » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:57 pm

I agree with your statement that it is a personal issue. We decided to send our kids to JSerra for a few reasons, but the predominant (sp?) one was faith. JSerra is the only Catholic HS in OC (other than St. Michael's Abbey) where kids go to Mass every week.
That from a Mater Dei Alumnus, who felt J Serra was...I believe he said...more Catholic than Mater Dei.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by Professor Fate » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:24 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:
It seems that what you really take exception to are students who transfer multiple times for personal reasons. Are you in favor of limits on transferring based on the sport, or on the number of times? How would that work?
Uh...it would work the same way it did before the MD lawsuit. The CIF allowed one transfer between freshman and soph year, for those who realized they had made a poor choice.
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Re: No more playing not true high schools

Post by downtothewire » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:54 am

Omar;

My solution to the problem is club football. I believe there's enough money and interest at the HS level to establish this system, locally, regionally, and even nationally. Get these high end superstar athletes that seek to build their sport careers out of the high schools and into specialized clubs or academies like IMG. Leave high school sports for the non-mercenary high school students.

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