Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

SK80
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

A.Hero, yes anything is possible but your take is highly improbable. This "new" era of high school football has a formula and that formula is picture perfect for a private institution. I walked around the JSerra campus last night, I looked at the "private" parking lot, I noticed the fancy expensive game ticket in my hand, all these things that no public school will ever see.

Can a public field a good team? Yes. How did they do against the Trinity schools in week 0
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

A.Hero, yes anything is possible but your take is highly improbable. This "new" era of high school football has a formula and that formula is picture perfect for a private institution. I walked around the JSerra campus last night, I looked at the "private" parking lot, I noticed the fancy expensive game ticket in my hand, all these things that no public school will ever see.

Can a public field a good team? Yes. How did they do against the Trinity schools in week 0? Well the average score for week 0 against the Trinity schools was 41-9. Steve Fryer actually just posted an article this morning detailing how out of whack this has become. This quote by Steve is shall we say "RIGHT ON THE MONEY".

"Transfers are as numerous in Trinity League football as expensive cars in the JSerra parking lot."

#Money. It takes a whole lotta money. :2cents:
Last edited by SK80 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SK80
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

A.Hero, yes anything is possible but your take is highly improbable. This "new" era of high school football has a formula and that formula is picture perfect for a private institution. I walked around the JSerra campus last night, I looked at the "private" parking lot, I noticed the fancy expensive game ticket in my hand, all these things that no public school will ever see.

Can a public field a good team? Yes. How did they do against the Trinity schools in week 0
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Bick
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by Bick »

I’m guessing the parking lot at CDM might bear a similarity to that of JSerra.

There has been a change at JSerra since coach hartigan left though. Seems they’ve decided to throw their hat in the recruiting ring to compete at the top level.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

@Bick you don't think I wasn't ready for that comeback did ya...! Well yes no doubt about it CDM is an affluent area, but in no way are they throwing personal money at football in any comparison to these privates. Believe if the "rich" parents at CDM where paying big bucks to send their kids to CDM they would be more inclined to back the notion "buy" us a team.

Until those parents at CDM see football as an all must win at any cost kinda thing they will surely be having to afford some serious transportation bills or contribute to some serious housing bills.... :shock:
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Bick
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by Bick »

When you say throw money, what beyond tuition are you referring to?
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by Domingo »

CDM's destruction last night proved my point. Arguably the 2nd best public school in Orange County was lucky the score wasn't even worse last night. They should have been shut out and JSerra could have won that game by 50+. AND JSerra doesn't have a chance to win it's own league!! The Trinity League, led by Bosco and MD, will continue to buy as much talent as they possibly can regardless of where the athlete is coming from and regardless of their aptitude as a student. It doesn't matter anymore. Success in football is too important for these schools now. In fact success in football IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT goal of all the Trinity League Schools (as is the case at USC, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Alabama).

I will go one step further in saying not only will a Public School never again win a SS D1 Football Title, you will ONLY see the Champion of the SS D1 come of the Trinity League. The only way this isn't true is if Loyola High decides to join the party.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by hit the lights »

I guarantee you CDM is NOT the 2nd best public school in OC, or the 3rd or 4th. :fan:
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by OutOfState »

HTL...... Besides Mission and La Habra tell us what other OC publics are better than CDM.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

Here are my public rankings...... OC,

MV
SC
LH

I then think that Capo, CDM, Tesoro, Los Al and Edison.

I don't know where to put Vill Park as outside their QB don't know enough. I watched them at passing league he has an arm, big tall D1 prospect. Didn't see much else around him then so I am reserved on making any assessment.

With that, the Trinity league is pulling away and really there is nothing right now going to stop that or change that.
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2002tony
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by 2002tony »

2nd best over these schools ...CDM still has not proven they can beat these schools and it cant be for just one year but every year.

SC, Tesoro ( the two times '14, '15 CDM played them CDM lost), Edison, Los Al, La Habra,
Teams that could beat CDM on any given year (maybe not this year but maybe this year - Villia Park, Foothill, Cypress, Trabuco ( yes CDM won the last two years but 3 years ago CDM lost to them)

Point being CDM still has not played a complete season against tougher competition that is at their level or league
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by Ramon »

You guys know there is qualify football betting played outside of D1 right? Orange County does amazing as evidenced by El Modena, Orange & Katella's performances in the CIF playoffs last year...Just sayin
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

Some good points 2002tony, CDM has success as small school playing smaller division in which they actually are a small enrollment public school.

The years we played Tesoro we were close but again it showed up in the size of Tesoro and it was really Devon Monster who got us. Right now I will agree or is it disagree, Foothill, Cypress and Trabuco are not in the conversation, thats my take.

CDM will be fine this loss as bad as the scoreboard was didn't really change how I see the next two years. CDM lined up a bunch of guys last night that were just sophomores last season, some starting in their first game as Varsity outside senior center Sean Owens. QB, WR, WR, TE, Tackle, Tackle, Guard, Guard, RB all Juniors. I have stated here a number of times this will be the probable cause of some losses this season. If you do not think that starting your first game against JSerra was a scary proposition you are mistaken. That team has imported most of those guys on the line, QB, RB's etc.

I don't look at these teams as I do the publics, I just don't so what happened is nothing but a learning experience, one CDM got out of with all their pieces.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by benotafraid »

I will make a counter argument to the general argument that privates, Bosco and MD in particular ruined public schools chances of ever being competitive.

I went to public schools my whole life, as did my wife. My wife is a public school teacher. Like so many public school teachers, we sent our kids to private, we don’t make a ton of money and it was/is a sacrifice, but well worth it. I won’t go into the many reasons why it’s worth it, as I’m sure most readers here can fill in the blanks. That’s what people do in CA if they can. They send their kids to better schools.

So, private schools should never be able to keep up with public schools in many aspects, particularly where it counts a lot, money. Public schools have the power of the state behind them. Public schools raise bonds and taxes and routinely build bigger and better facilities than private schools. Their teachers have to jump through more hoops for their credentials, and they get paid more than private school teachers for the most part. Public schools offer more curriculum, bands/music, international baccalaureate, etc.

AND ITS FREE! FREE LIKE NO TUITION!

LA unified entirely just doesn’t care about high school football, same as many CIF school districts. How do I come to this conclusion? Because if they did, they would put money into it. They would pay coaches, get better facilities (I’m talkin about LA city here) etc. Really it’s a microcosm of a bigger failure. Public’s care less about their students, plain and simple. Why? Because they don’t have to answer to the parents in the same manner that private schools do. You can make an argument that public school rules work against them, but folks, who makes the rules? Are the rules carved in Stone? Have they ever changed?

It shouldn’t even be close. Public schools should dominate over privates every time. They do in Texas! Have you seen the schools in Texas? Gorgeous!

Public schools get in their own way. They have only themselves to blame. It’s not just in football either. You can scapegoat privates, but they simply filled a need. It should never have become a need. It should have stayed local, down the street for every kid.

When someone offers up a private school education to a football kid, and a parent thinks about the difference in environment, it’s not even close. If I had a highly football talented kid, and there were two choices, both great programs, and one of them was free and close to home?
But that never happens anymore because public’s can’t get out of their own way.

Fix your public schools and you’ll have better football, that is if you really want better football. But the proof is in the pudding. Will public schools pay coaches? Will they allow boosters? In other words, will they act like they really want to keep their talent, maybe draw in some talent? For free?
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by Ramon »

The above post is so awesome...Well said!!!
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by daddyooo »

Even in Texas there are restrictions on transfer (1 year sit out rule). The big 6A schools are huge...competitive equity playoffs like we have here don't exist, and due to the heavy investment in facilities a private school really can't compete (as an example, Jesuit HS (Dallas) and Strake Jesuit (Houston) had to sue their way into the UIL (public school association)-they won their suit and were placed in the toughest 6A leagues in the state. Jesuit has made the playoffs 11 of 14 years, Strake only 4 of 14. Strake made it to round 3, Jesuit has only gone 2 rounds deep.

They both do well in the individual sports, both league and state-wide.

The comment on money is a good one-if the facilities and coaching are equal to or better than private, the kids will go public. Also keep in mind that a football coach at a Texas public HS just coaches football-doesn't teach classes.

There are public HS's who have being top D1 as part of their agenda-Centennial and MIssion Viejo come to mind, and there are ambitious schools like Calabasas. From what I see to play and succeed at the D1 level as a public you need aggressive boosters; a larger student body, be located in an affluent area (Calabasas, Westlake, Mission Viejo, CDM); a school/community committed to football success, and open enrollment, a huge student body, or both). It also doesn't hurt to be in an area with a large talent pool (LB Poly) or adjacent to LA Unified (Calabasas).

My bet is that publics that have a shot at winning D1 (some of these are longer shots than other, and it may not happen for a while if at all) will be one of the following : Calabasas, Westlake, Mission Viejo, San Clemente, La Habra, Upland, Rancho Cucamonga, Centennial).

Wouldn't be surprised if Redondo Union/Mira Costa took footbal seriously it could compete at the D1 level at some point. Open enrollment, affluent area, good facilities.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by 2002tony »

Ramon wrote:You guys know there is qualify football betting played outside of D1 right? Orange County does amazing as evidenced by El Modena, Orange & Katella's performances in the CIF playoffs last year...Just sayin
Ramon, I agree that we are blessed in an area that just has a lot of great football games and teams with heritage that make for a good fan experience in many venues.

What would be great is when some of these fans of teams (other then some of the majority of posters here) post with enthusiasm about their teams and experiences that the site as a whole would support those other fans with their comments instead of the usual thing that was said in the past which drove most away.

I know it is always tempting to put a lid on their enthusiasm, but we all need to find ways to educate them, gracefully give our own opinion, and share our own experiences without ridiculing their enthusiasm and their team teams successes. In the past it has always been more sarcasm and mockery that is posted here towards others, (big and the smaller schools) then has been needed.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by SK80 »

@BeNotAfraid, nice take and contribution, yes the "total" monies that the publics take in if were to be put or focused on one sport like football could produce better results, public "total" monies dwarf what all the privates have. So in theory you are correct. However you also put forth the reasoning as to why this will never happen, big government could never manage such a thing. Agree, they can't get out of their own way. My ex-wife was a LAUSD teacher, we argued all the time about the "system", she complained and criticized that system yet did not want to hear my ideas or solutions (political) and always sided with the status quo.

Bottom line, these school stake in BILLIONS yet none of it ever gets to the student. One of the most mismanaged systems out there.

And the notion of "publics" ever supporting football... never! The political leaning of the "system" would support BANNING football (health, safety) before the would support FUNDING it.

I am not deeply knowledgeable in Texas football or its public schools but I have read much lately about it and their is a model there that makes some real good sense.

@daddydoo, some good follow up points too. Never say never and what comes around goes around. I think one element you may want to include in your case is social media and what it's effect on mobility and logistics now mean. Kids (as we see now in NBA) can all meet via off-season, get to know whom they want to play with then group and decide who they want to play for. This model could create a SUPER team quick in anywhere high school OC or LA.

@2020tony, @Ramon, points I try and bring as a D4 school football fan. I take as much enjoyment in reading what is happening at schools like Katella and Orange as I do in MD and SJB. To me it's about the game yes, but the kids, the players, their character and their experiences they share. I look at all the divisions, in fact I already have a D6 possible playoff game that would pit two tough blue collar coastal, port, oil rig towns in Oxnard vs Huntington Beach (well not so blue collar anymore!)

Yes, I have to agree, that some of the banter of the fans of the ELITE programs in D1 turn off contributing followers and potential posters that follow smaller division football.
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hit the lights
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by hit the lights »

out of state,
CDM is a good team. But, i think that they lack physical style of play. They do have a couple good guys though.
MV
LH
SC
LOS AL
VILLA PARK
After last week, possibly San Juan Hills and Firth.
Possibly Capo valley.
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Re: Will a Public HS Ever Win a D1 Football Title Again?

Post by MDDad »

SK80 wrote:I think one element you may want to include in your case is social media and what it's effect on mobility and logistics now mean. Kids (as we see now in NBA) can all meet via off-season, get to know whom they want to play with then group and decide who they want to play for.
SK80, thanks for repeating a point I tried to make a few weeks ago. I'd bet at least 90% of all "recruiting" that's typically blamed on schools, coaches and football programs is actually done via social media and text messages between athletes who met and formed friendships at these camps, 7-on-7 teams and youth teams.
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