Aliso Niguel - Racist?

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FBOC
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by FBOC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:34 am

Really sad everyone is offended about everything these days. How can chanting USA be offensive if your living in the United States BY CHOICE. My God if your offended by the flag and the country you live in thats a YOU problem not a Aliso problem.

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Al Koholik
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Al Koholik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:46 am

Yes, I think key questions are

1. Is there any history of AN sponsoring such “patrotism” themes at football games?
2. Can anyone cite another occurance where the crowd chanted USA after a score (in any sport outside of the Olympics).

I will reserve judgement until answers to such can be offered. But cmon folks. Please don’t insult your own intelligence by asserting there was nary a thought of the current immigration uproar and devisive nature of associated incindiary rhetoric that plagues our nation. Teens, sadly by nature, are likely more confused and torn by such than the rest of us and, as we all know, rarely think through actions of this nature, be they planned or in the heat/excitement of the moment. And God only knows what they hear at home from Mom, Dad and Uncle Angry.
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ventura
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by ventura » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 am

John Q. Public wrote:Sounds to me like "progressives" kidnapped them.


So you and FBOC go off on political rants on the High School Sports forum. Got it.

Now, Aliso-Santa Ana anyone?

I came on the site for an update on Trinity league, John Q. If you didn't want my comment, take the thread to a forum where it belongs and I would never have seen it. I go here for an escape from the unadulterated BS coming from every direction 24/7, and get sucked in, then you give me crap for it? Sheesh.

I think I speak for a lot of sports fans that JUST WANT AN ESCAPE when they watch a contest, and we can't get that anymore. Not even in high school.

I saw a bumper sticker a few weeks ago. "Good morning, America! What are we offended by today?" Exactly.
Last edited by ventura on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Al Koholik
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Al Koholik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:57 am

FBOC wrote:Really sad everyone is offended about everything these days. How can chanting USA be offensive if your living in the United States BY CHOICE. My God if your offended by the flag and the country you live in thats a YOU problem not a Aliso problem.
So missing the point. But as far as “patriotism” It is the spirit and intent with which you assert it that is in question here.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Bick » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:21 am

ventura wrote: I came on the site for an update on Trinity league, John Q. If you didn't want my comment, take the thread to a forum where it belongs and I would never have seen it. I go here for an escape for the unadulterated BS coming from every direction 24/7, and get sucked in, then you give me crap for it? Sheesh.

I think I speak for a lot of sports fans that JUST WANT AN ESCAPE when they watch a contest, and we can't get that anymore. Not even in high school.

I saw a bumper sticker a few weeks ago. "Good morning, America! What are we offended by today?" Exactly.
AAAAAAA-MENNNNN. That part that really sucks about this is the new requirement of being sensitive to any whim of the victim du jour, or you'll be branded as an "IST". Glad to see you're rejecting that BS also.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by MDDad » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:14 am

Two days ago, this story was one of five articles on the front page of the L.A. Times. Yesterday, this story was again one of five articles that made the front page of the Times. That means the paper's editors and publisher either believed that with everything going on in the world today this is one of the five most important news stories over the last two days, or they know that their liberal subscribers are always titillated by any article that implies racism. My guess is the latter, and they took full advantage of it. Shame on them.

I believe everyone with half a brain knows there is racism in America. But to apply the term to a bunch of high school kids chanting "USA" after a touchdown cheapens and downgrades the term when it's more appropriately used to describe white cops intentionally shooting unarmed black men. Furthermore, attaching the term to such silly, juvenile behavior and equating it to real, impactful racism runs the risk of hardening the hearts of those kids and anyone else with an open mind and still straddling the fence. There is no tangible benefit to doing it.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by FBOC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:02 am

Al Koholik wrote:So missing the point. But as far as “patriotism” It is the spirit and intent with which you assert it that is in question here.
Please tell me why they are offended? They are not happy to be in the United States?? Is that why they fly Mexican flags all over Santa Ana?

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by SK80 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:35 am

The LA Times are perps and carry much of the blame as stoking the flames equal sales... if they didn’t own the Daily Pilot I would pay them no mind.

MDDad is on point.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:07 pm

ventura wrote: I came on the site for an update on Trinity league
Welcome back Ventura. It is sad that the PC crowd imagines insults, discrimination, and racism in everything they see and hear, and it's even worse that some loony principal brings it to HS sports over chants of USA, USA.

Anyway, back to football. Don't be a stranger.

p.s. Troy Thomas is 3-0. I wanted someone else, but it appears Troy may have been the right choice for Servite's situation.

Now back to Aliso Niguel being bashed for showing pride in their country.
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Al Koholik
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Al Koholik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:13 pm

MDDad wrote:Two days ago, this story was one of five articles on the front page of the L.A. Times. Yesterday, this story was again one of five articles that made the front page of the Times. That means the paper's editors and publisher either believed that with everything going on in the world today this is one of the five most important news stories over the last two days, or they know that their liberal subscribers are always titillated by any article that implies racism. My guess is the latter, and they took full advantage of it. Shame on them.

I believe everyone with half a brain knows there is racism in America. But to apply the term to a bunch of high school kids chanting "USA" after a touchdown cheapens and downgrades the term when it's more appropriately used to describe white cops intentionally shooting unarmed black men. Furthermore, attaching the term to such silly, juvenile behavior and equating it to real, impactful racism runs the risk of hardening the hearts of those kids and anyone else with an open mind and still straddling the fence. There is no tangible benefit to doing it.
I would respectfully submit there there in no “cheapening or downgrading of the term” RACISM.
It is already bottom of the barrel. A better description would be “diluting”. But in reality, everyone on this board is racist to a degree be you black, brown, white or yellow. It is basic human nature to fear that which doesn’t look like you, act like you, think like you. And it is human nature to believe that you are actually “better” than someone you don’t even know purely on the basis of their color, accent, country of origin, clothing and the assumption of their poverty. I will be the first to admit I often find racism in some of my own tendencies of thought.
I am compelled to reference George Costanza when he says “Jerry is white? I never noticed, I don’t see people in terms of color”.
Conclusion: You’re all full of crap.
Last edited by Al Koholik on Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Al Koholik
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Al Koholik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:19 pm

FBOC wrote:Please tell me why they are offended? They are not happy to be in the United States?? Is that why they fly Mexican flags all over Santa Ana?
Sir, I assume, your last statement says it all. I will stop short of labeling. But seriously, I believe it is ignorant and statements like these that nullify any coherent argument you may offer. As well, as I alluded to, these are the type of statements that teens hear at home and... well, we all know the rest. It all starts at home. Love, respect, racism and tolerance.
In a nutshell, you just don’t get it and likwly never will.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by TommyTrojan » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:22 pm

FWIW, Segerstrom HS travelled to Laguna Beach a couple years ago for a playoff game and had tortillas & beans thrown at them along with verbal abuse from fans in the crowd. Events like that go a long way toward causing people to make generalizations about a group/area/school so that when something can be construed as fitting that preconceived notion, it becomes real easy to jump to the conclusion you think you see.

I have no idea exactly what happened Friday night at Aliso and I suspect none of you do either. I would also imagine that I am much closer (both in the literal and figurative sense) than just about all of you are as well. How about we wait to hear what the investigations by both schools reveals rather than jumping to conclusions in either direction?

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Professor Fate » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Al Koholik wrote: I would respectfully submit there there in no “cheapening or downgrading of the term” RACISM.
It is already bottom of the barrel.
I'm sure you realize the point was, that throwing around the term to describe so may trivial and/or questionable cases (where intent is not known), weakens the term because people will start to dismiss it. They become inured to it due to so much over-usage. (See: The Boy Who Cried Wolf, and "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!").
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Al Koholik
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Al Koholik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:32 pm

I assure you, the “point” was not lost on me. But I don’t find that to be a valid argument in this case and thus my reply.
Racism and RACIST are two completely different things. Racism, as I noted, is alive and well in all of us. BEING a Racist is very different than the human nature racism I alluded to.
And in my humble opinion, there is no “trivial” racism.
Last edited by Al Koholik on Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by MDDad » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm

Al Koholik, I agree, "diluting" would have been the better verb. But I think my meaning was clear.

Maybe five or six weeks ago, I was at South Coast Plaza on a Saturday afternoon and I overheard two guys talking. One was trying to point out someone he knew in a crowd of people some distance away. He said, "That's him over there standing next to the black guy." His friend immediately got a shocked look on his face and responded, "Come on, man, that is so racist!" If that's what the term has come to mean, it's lost its meaning altogether.

I liken it to the term "awesome". It used to be reserved for something that inspired awe, something truly astounding or exceptional. Now it's applied to every mundane circumstance. Again, from people-watching, I recently heard a woman tell her friend that she was going to have a burger for dinner because she had only a salad the night before. The second woman responded with, "Oh my God! Really? A salad? That is so awesome!" I could never imagine what could be awe-inspiring about someone eating a salad.

If we use powerful terms in mundane and trivial ways like that they lose their impact, and racism is one word that shouldn't be "diluted" by tossing it around in describing the juvenile antics of stupid teenagers.

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Al Koholik
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Al Koholik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:52 pm

MD, I understand and respect your point but I am compelled to offer that “juvenile antics” are not immune to having origins, to whatever degree, of racism. Again, I can only imagine what kids hear at home from parents, let alone what they see/hear/read. Kinda like FBOC inquiring “why are they so offended? Do they not like it here (read “here” as: in OUR country)? Is that why they fly Mexican flags all the time?”
Just ignorant. If he’s got kids, they hear worse at home, guaranteed.
It all starts at home. Including the rhetoric that precipitates “juvenile antics”, whatever they may be.
There are consequesnces to juvenile antics. I have friends who make a living teaching these juveniles while they are incarcerated for their juvenile antics. And again, there are no mundane or trivial acts of racism. They either are or they aren’t. ANY that are, need to be exposed for their ignorance.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:34 pm

I think Tommy Trojan hit it pretty well up above. There's a long history of schools from Santa Ana facing racist taunts. So, no matter how innocent - or no matter what story they use to excuse it away - Santa Ana will be viewing it through that lens. The Aliso kids might be innocent or they might be using "gee, we were just being patriotic" as an excuse. I'm not going to judge. But I will say that Santa Ana is going to see their actions differently than Dana Hills would.

And a question I have to ask - This is California, for God's sake. Did any of us go to schools that weren't half Mexican? Where does this stuff come from?
Don't look at me, I just work here.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by FBOC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:47 pm

Al
By the way my long time gf and her children are Mexican and were born in Mexico. We all live together her and her family all think this is BS. Are you going to call her, her Mexican family and Mexican children ignorant?? Are you going to tell them that Al? Are you going to tell how dangerous she is to her children? Please tell the consequences for the kids of Aliso? Did they get in trouble? In closing what an ignorant statement to compare the Aliso students to the problem children your friend deals with. I'm sure they broke the law. If you want talk to my my gf family and children I can arrange that. You can tell them how and when Mexicans are supposed to be offended and the harm we are to her children
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:55 pm

MDDad wrote: Maybe five or six weeks ago, I was at South Coast Plaza on a Saturday afternoon and I overheard two guys talking. One was trying to point out someone he knew in a crowd of people some distance away. He said, "That's him over there standing next to the black guy." His friend immediately got a shocked look on his face and responded, "Come on, man, that is so racist!" If that's what the term has come to mean, it's lost its meaning altogether.
LOL. Reminds me of many years ago when I was looking for a department manager at a Walmart. I asked somebody and she said, "Oh, you want Debbie."

"Ok, what's she look like?"

"Oh, short, blonde...."

So I set off looking for a short Scandinavian chick. I walk around for 10 minutes and realize that the only blonde I'd seen was the black lady with platinum blonde hair that I'd walked by two or three times. Yup. That was Debbie.

It could have been so much easier.

Attention people! "White," "Black," "Asian," "light-skinned," "dark-skinned," "pale," "black lady with platinum blonde hair" are very good descriptors. Feel free to use them.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by FBOC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:07 pm

John Q. Public wrote:"The Wall." That's Aliso's new goal line defense, right?

Weak excuse, FBOC.
The wall thing never happend please retract.
When asked the principal never saw it and there are no pics

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