Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Doody thang
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Doody thang » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:00 pm

John Q. Public wrote: Where does this stuff come from?
Social media......

To be fair, yes, Santa Ana schools have had this thrown at them for years, but there are plenty of Santa Ana kids that aren’t afraid to voice their “dislike” (I won’t go so far to say hatred) of America.....it’s just a fact

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:50 pm

Doody thang wrote: there are plenty of Santa Ana kids that aren’t afraid to voice their “dislike” (I won’t go so far to say hatred) of America
Sometimes the stars align...I was just about to comment and this gem appears to perfectly illustrate my point.

The topic is what happened at the game. It's not about what your Mexican wife thinks, or what some kid said at some other time, or what happened to you one day.

Was anybody commenting here actually at the game?

I see a lot of outrage at what the SAHS principal (who was at the game) said. If it's at odds with what the AVHS prinicipal (who was also at the game, I assume) said, then we all have a valid right to ask why that is.

But all the generalizing, stereotyping and just plain making stuff up out of thin air ( "nobody there _____ " and "everybody there _____") doesn't have any bearing at all on what really happened and what, if anything, should be done about it.

Some of those complaining the loudest about the media reporting unsubstantiated rumors and injecting politics into the situation seem to be trying their best to outdo them...

Again, anybody commenting here actually witness what happened?
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by SK80 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Obbie, I have questioned this a few times, not anyone.., that alone should cease the conversation.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:11 pm

Well then, as usual it's all wind in sails...
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:51 pm

Doody thang wrote:To be fair, yes, Santa Ana schools have had this thrown at them for years, but there are plenty of Santa Ana kids that aren’t afraid to voice their “dislike” (I won’t go so far to say hatred) of America.....it’s just a fact
Sorry Omar and SK80 but I couldn't let that one pass.

I'll ask again - "Where do they get this stuff?"

I know a lot of immigrants from all over the Americas, Europe, Asia, the Middle East and a few from Africa and I don't know a one who "dislikes" the US. Americans, maybe. We can give them a lot to dislike. But America, no. They all have dual or triple citizenship and they're free to leave any time they want. But they don't. They're here because they want to be here.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Doody thang » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:01 pm

John & Omar


I taught in Santa for nearly ten years.....I know Santa Ana kids, don’t pretend there’s not anti-American feelings there. I’m not saying it’s universal, but it definitely has a large presence.
And I don’t doubt Aliso Niguel kids said things, I’ve been on the Santa Ana end (same situation) of things more than once.
FWIW, I haven’t been anywhere in my life where there is more overt racism than there is in Santa Ana and that includes the Deep South and Asia.
More than once, I’ve seen whites and blacks next in line at a businesses and the person behind the counter act like they aren’t even there to help the Hispanic person behind them.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:26 pm

I know no one who has ever used "USA, USA" as a racist chant. How does that even work? It is a term about a nation not about a race.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by SK80 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:42 pm

JQP you are really taking a side something we are all entitled to but being that you are Admin/Mod here I am a bit surprised you do not refrain from interjection. This "thing" we are discussing did happen or maybe did happen at a HS Football game but to keep shining in we will have this thread going until CIF Playoffs.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:11 pm

Professor Fate wrote: I know no one who has ever used "USA, USA" as a racist chant. How does that even work?
Ohhhh, how about if the PA announcer says "Rodriguez taken down by Smythe" and they start the chant? Not saying it happened but you asked for an example.

I think Doody might be on to something with the social media. How the principal found out would be anybody's guess, though.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Bick » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:39 pm

Professor Fate wrote: I know no one who has ever used "USA, USA" as a racist chant. How does that even work? It is a term about a nation not about a race.
C'mon Prof. American pride, U-S-A, national security, respect for the flag / national anthem aligns with Trump, or more like vice versa. He's for it, and been labeled a racist. Anything / anyone associated with anything he supports, is by definition all the pejoratives he's been labeled with.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Doody thang » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:01 pm

JQP, the admin would usually be clueless about the social media stuff. It always goes down like that.

Professor Fate, my money is that both sides were saying racist or let’s call it nationalistic things on social media and Aliso rubbing it in after a score, the tone was discernible.......I’d put money on it

Bick, in my experience it’s much simpler and all that stuff is window dressing, though the principal tried to throw his own lefty agenda into the whole thing for sure

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:09 pm

So, what is it about "the right" that makes them keep bringing politics into this? This isn't a political issue.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 pm

So I ask if we can stop using personal anecdotes and generalizing them to entire groups, so what do I get?
Doody thang wrote: I know Santa Ana kids...
So you know "Santa Ana" kids? Well, I grew up there and until I was 12 or so I thought the proper term for a person of Hispanic heritage was "beaner" because that's pretty much what everybody in my neighborhood called them. Did you know any of those kids? I can understand how that kind of treatment might engender contempt for the people that do it. But for the country? That's just made-up BS and you know it
Doody thang wrote: More than once, I’ve seen...
I think we've all lived long enough to have seen it all. What the purpose of singling out these eyewitness horror stories is other than to smear everyone belonging to a certain group is beyond me
Professor Fate wrote: I know no one who has ever used "USA, USA" as a racist chant. How does that even work?
It has to do with the intent of the person doing it. Check out a Trump rally
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Bick » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:12 pm

John Q. Public wrote: So, what is it about "the right" that makes them keep bringing politics into this? This isn't a political issue.
Yeah, it is John. Claims of racism are all about Trump and the GOP anymore. Only took 150 years to flip the script from the actions of southern dems. Have you heard about a liberal racist in the past few years? Me neither.
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:56 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:So I ask if we can stop using personal anecdotes and generalizing them to entire groups, so what do I get?
The use of personal anecdotes to generalize entire groups has no validity. So let me share one of my own personal anecdotes that generalizes an entire group...
Omar Bongo wrote:So you know "Santa Ana" kids? Well, I grew up there and until I was 12 or so I thought the proper term for a person of Hispanic heritage was "beaner" because that's pretty much what everybody in my neighborhood called them.
And to conclude my Logic 101 session I'll throw in an inference that all Trump supporters are racist...
Omar Bongo wrote:It has to do with the intent of the person doing it. Check out a Trump rally
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:16 pm

Hi Credo...Mater Dei must be off this week?


So let me share one of my own personal anecdotes...

Except I used that example to show Doody that his generalization of "Santa Ana kids" was innacurate, not to smear an entire group. That was the point, in case you missed it


I'll throw in an inference that all Trump supporters are racist

Didn't say or infer all Trump supporters are racist, I said you can see how the USA chant can be used in a racist context at his concerts. You're the one trying to generalize my observation to an entire group of 50 million people


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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by SK80 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:53 am

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Doody thang » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:32 am

Till you were 12? How old are you now?

Personal anecdotes, like the time I was boxed in by 3 cars full of gang members, simply for dropping my girlfriend off at her house, and told we don’t want to see white people around here are important because it shows a general pattern of behavior in the area we are talking about. I was very careful to say it isn’t universal, but it does happen all the time.

It’s not painting a group by the behavior of a few, it’s describing routine behavior in a city.

My point is that racist or nationalist stuff was more than likely said by both sides, increased the tension of the situation and caused the principal to make a stupid comment.....I’d be willing to put money on it because I’ve seen it happen that way numerous times.

It’s just common sense and it’s politics aside.

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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by Omar Bongo » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:58 am

My point is that racist or nationalist stuff was more than likely said by both sides

You're just speculating, unless you have proof of that. Of course you're free to imagine that was the case, but your selective anecdotes are no substitute for actual evidence. I'm not really interested in what anybody who wasn't there supposes "likely" happened...isn't the press getting castigated here for doing the same thing?
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Re: Aliso Niguel - Racist?

Post by joefutbol » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:00 am

Professor Fate wrote:I know no one who has ever used "USA, USA" as a racist chant. How does that even work? It is a term about a nation not about a race.
I've done it. There, now you know someone who has used "USA, USA" as a racist chant.

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