Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

SK80
Posts: 2413
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:14 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by SK80 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:52 pm

John Q. Public wrote:Villa Park's that good?

#7 on OC Varsity Top 10 today.....
"don't try to tell people what I think when they can read what I actually said and I won't return the favor, okay?" ~ O. Bongo

User avatar
Professor Fate
Posts: 4700
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:11 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by Professor Fate » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:21 pm

The forfeited wins were nonleague games against Santa Margarita, La Habra,
Villa Park and Liberty of Bakersfield. The ineligible player, who was not identified
by the school, did not play in the Diablos’ wins against Upland and Orange Lutheran. - OC Varsity
Make Them Cry Again In 2020

hit the lights
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:02 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by hit the lights » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:39 pm

PTG or 2002 T,
Any light on who this player is? Were they a full time starter or a backup filling in? MV will go in as league champs anyway, but who will they draw?

The Old Gym
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:24 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by The Old Gym » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:05 pm

Best team money tried to buy.....

2002tony
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by 2002tony » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:37 pm

hit the lights wrote:PTG or 2002 T,
Any light on who this player is? Were they a full time starter or a backup filling in? MV will go in as league champs anyway, but who will they draw?
yes I heard a name today, it is not a starter but lets call him a rotational player sometimes for the starter but sometimes it was another player who was put into the game. I had only heard this players name in one game.

SK80
Posts: 2413
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:14 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by SK80 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:00 pm

Wow. Heavy price to pay. But as I have said before if you gonna play the transfers game be prepared for situations like this.
"don't try to tell people what I think when they can read what I actually said and I won't return the favor, okay?" ~ O. Bongo

Eddyr2
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by Eddyr2 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:42 pm

Chad is throwing shade at Bod for this sin. Says the kid was at MV before he got there. Looks like Bob used money to buy his team just couldn’t buy the best...

2002tony
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by 2002tony » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:47 pm

cruiser wrote:Hmm, clerical error?, seems like more to it, was someone in the know going to drop a couple of
dimes to the CIFSS, I can see a one game screw up but four! games into the season
and MV waiting another THREE weeks to fess up? Something looks amiss here, no?

In any case, SM will pick up a victory because of it.
well that would be when or in what week of season the team discovered the infraction cruiser, thought you were smarter then that. A team may not find out until week 5, which has happen to other teams. Just because you find out there might be a infraction the school still has to investigate it which may take another week or two.

Some teams dont find out until the season is over, as in Edison which had 6 games forfeited in the regular season and 1 playoff game that they had won, but they lost the next week. hmm do you think coach White was being devious all these years? I would say no and schools have a hard time vetting all players if the players and parents are trying to mislead or just dont know all the rules themselves.

The other part it does not matter when the player came into the game, even if it is for the last play of a game just to run out the clock. Once on the field the forfeit is mandatory.

in the case of Mission, if the name was correct that I was told, this was not a starter per say but he would come in as a receiver during certain plays and play with the first team. That is why I said rotational player but I can see calling him a "starter" if he plays with the first team on certain packages even though the ball was never thrown to him. Mission runs 4 and 5 receiver formations and this player would be in on some of those. Also, there are receivers who were on some of those formation packages early in the season but got beat out in practice a few weeks later in the season.

So either the player was beat out in practice, or those formation packages were not used after week 4, or the school was investigating after week 4 and the player was held off the field or the name i was told was not correct and was not a receiver at all but the example is still correct.
Last edited by 2002tony on Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2002tony
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by 2002tony » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:12 pm

SK80 wrote:Wow. Heavy price to pay. But as I have said before if you gonna play the transfers game be prepared for situations like this.
Sk, lets say a player wants to go to another team because in his opinion his currant team sucks. Maybe it is not even football related but he wants to get out of a personal situation, the family has close friends who live close by but are in another school districts attendance area and the friends give permission to use their address to help the other family. It can be very hard to vet that player when the other family says yes they live here and the families think they are ok.

When a player shows up at a public school, you cant say that you wont take them in to play. If they are eligible to play by the rules and standards of the school district and have not broken any rules of any kind, then they cant be held off the team.

Sometimes there is nothing devious being done or known by the team staff. Mission has a new athletic directer and I am not positive but pretty sure it was her job and the admin office to vet all the players, not the coaching staff.
Last edited by 2002tony on Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Playthegame
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:23 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by Playthegame » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:20 pm

Here is the deal, kid played at MV, as freshmen, then had some issues on campus, had to go to another school one exit towards LA from La Paz. Played FB there last year, then left for MV after FB season (last year) during prior administration. New coach, new admin, paper work did not get due diligence and the school he played for last year reported it. Now there are other personal issues involved and new coach and new admin are duly upset.

So it will not impact top seeding per se but concerns are a tough first round match up ie; Oaks or MD. Last I heard MV Admin is/was trying to fight the number of games forfeited. Bottom line is the kid was not a top tier prospect, but should have sat his first 5 games due to transferring with out a valid address change (divorce move). Nothing shady, was not a transfer this year, personal family issues as well. ...New Coach is bent and expects it to be contested strongly as the New Coach and New Admin inherited the problem with no knowledge anything was a miss until prior school reported! Full disclosure, this is how it was relayed to me...due to the sensitivity of the matter and for the kid and family, leaving it there...

SK80
Posts: 2413
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:14 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by SK80 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:11 am

PTG, when these things happen I always feel for the other players whom are now penalized for all their hard work. That said, here again we have the played here this year, played there the next year, played here again this year. That alone should be a RED FLAG. Like I said, play the transfer game and the likelihood of a mistake whether known or unknown goes up.
"don't try to tell people what I think when they can read what I actually said and I won't return the favor, okay?" ~ O. Bongo

hit the lights
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:02 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by hit the lights » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:13 am

PTG / 2002 T,
Thanks for the feedback. It sucks because of the year the Diablos are having. Guys like Akili and Kenely's etc.. Like Sk80 says though, live by the transfers die by the transfers. No matter who's fault it is. If MV gets matched up with Oaks that would be a great first round game, that MV should win. This does catapult Villa Park to 7-0 and Ancich to Coach of the year beating MV and Servite.

Daforno
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by Daforno » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:37 am

Playthegame makes a good point, sit out 5 games if you really want to be sure.

In fact didn't MD sit out for 5 games their 5 Star receiver #6 Huffman-Dixon ( including against IMG )

Imagine MD doing it correctly, showing the way, even now there is a question of their one kid from Australia being eligible
or not

cruiser
Posts: 2980
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:42 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by cruiser » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:04 am

Apparently Chad Johnson is taking the blame but said the player was already on the team
when he arrived at the school to become the FBHC, noble for taking the fall for BJ and the MV
administration, so apparently the AD's office did not catch it until now?

...or was it brought to their attention in some other manner? - After all this time, someone
just happen to check the player in question transfer's papers?

hit the lights
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:02 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by hit the lights » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:59 am

What teams use or take in the most transfers ?
MD had a forfeit for a illegal player
MV now is forfeit 4 games due to more overlooked paperwork.
Last year, La Habra forfeited 3 games
Who else?? It's sad that Team doesn't come before a chosen few, only to possibly ruin a season and all the hard work that everyone has put in.
All for the "Chance" to win CIF.
Once you get to D-3 to D-1 the odds are harder than ever , with the coaching and players that are brought in.
Which reminds me, I have to buy a lotto ticket today it's up to over 4mill.
Work hard kids, every thing is earned nothing given, yeah right! These coaches need to take their own advise.
Stop insulting our intelligence.
Live by the transfers Die by the transfers.

MDDad
Posts: 12125
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by MDDad » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:32 am

2002tony wrote:I would say no and schools have a hard time vetting all players if the players and parents are trying to mislead or just dont know all the rules themselves.
Vetting a change of residence is not that difficult. One of the vetting steps is to confirm that the family has moved into the new residence, and the documentation for that is things like escrow papers, rental agreements, utility bills and homeowners insurance policies. If a family is "using" the address of a friend, none of those would exist. Another step in the vetting process is to physically confirm that the family has moved out of their old residence. In this case, that would also not have happened.
Playthegame wrote:So it will not impact top seeding per se but concerns are a tough first round match up ie; Oaks or MD.
That is not a concern. If Mission Viejo wins the South Coast League as expected, they will not be matched with another tough league champion like Oaks Christian or Mater Dei in the first round. As I posted yesterday:

The "seedings" (i.e. the top four spots in each division's playoff brackets) are primarily determined by the CIF rankings the last week of the season, and in the past they have not punished teams much for having to forfeit games. In 2012, St. John Bosco forfeited the first four games of the season, then went on to win the Trinity League title and get a top-four seed with a 6-4 record. I'd expect Mission Viejo to win the South Coast League and come away with a similar result.

Since, the forfeits are likely preleague games, they have no effect on league standings for Mission Viejo or any of those four opponents. The only likely beneficiary is Santa Margarita, who now goes from 2-5 to 3-4 and has a realistic shot at being an at-large candidate if they can win two more games.

Playthegame
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:23 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by Playthegame » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:04 am

Thanks MDDad,

You are one of the most well versed in CIF Blue Book Play Off protocol. I am pretty familiar as I have down loaded different years rules and am familiar with the seeding protocol as well. When I said concerns, I was relating what was spoken to me at the time. You will recall the year after MV had the painted ball incident the next years home games were taken away. So that too was a concern, in addition assistant coaches often are not familiar with seeding protocol and thus make assumptions with out knowing bracketology etc..my word there...things like 1 and 2 from same league are placed on opposite sides, top seeds play lowest seeds ie; #1 vs. at large, #2 seed vs. a 3rd place in league finisher, and after top 6 seeds, depending on number of leagues in Division and ALB's of 1 vs. AL or 3's then it is 2's vs. 2's in the first round.

As you have stated twice, correctly, MV will be a league 1 and face another league 3, unless dictated by CIFSS otherwise, MV could, most likely will (overall record) get the Trinity #3 possibly JSerra first round. Then, if they win first round, either Bosco or MD depending on who wins the Trinity, the other possibility is Centennial (2nd round) should MV be placed in the same Bracket.

MDDad
Posts: 12125
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by MDDad » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:15 am

Playthegame wrote:As you have stated twice, correctly, MV will be a league 1 and face another league 3, unless dictated by CIFSS otherwise, MV could, most likely will (overall record) get the Trinity #3 possibly JSerra first round. Then, if they win first round, either Bosco or MD depending on who wins the Trinity, the other possibility is Centennial (2nd round) should MV be placed in the same Bracket.
It's way too early to try and guess at the brackets, but what the hell. In this week's CIF rankings, MIssion Viejo is #5. If they win league, that would put them in the same quarter-bracket as #4 Oaks Christian. So my guess today would be Mission Viejo gets either Servite or JSerra in the first round, Oaks Christian in the second, and Mater Dei in the semi's.

aberamsey
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:21 am

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by aberamsey » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:43 am

It's way too early to try and guess at the brackets, but what the hell. In this week's CIF rankings, MIssion Viejo is #5. If they win league, that would put them in the same quarter-bracket as #4 Oaks Christian. So my guess today would be Mission Viejo gets either Servite or JSerra in the first round, Oaks Christian in the second, and Mater Dei in the semi's.
I'm new to how things work in the playoffs so I'm confused on MV would get either JSerra or Servite in the first round. With JSerra ranked 6th according to CIF and Servite not even in the top ten, why would it be either or? Based on how Servite played versus JSerra I don't see them winning a conference game, so would they even make the playoffs? Or does this assume that OLU is going to finish above JSerra?

FBOC
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mission Viejo to Forfeit 4 Games

Post by FBOC » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:55 am

How would it be the 3rd place team or the 5th or 6 placed team?

Post Reply