A Bosco JSerra D1 final

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks »

daddyooo wrote: Not only are the two schools proximate there's lot's of bad blood at all levels-staff, coaches, administration, etc.
Other than the Hartigan factor, why is there bad blood on the staffs?
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

Its also at the administrative level-Sulick (SM alum) was passed over for the job at JSerra and went back to SM as school president. Lots of faculty mobility between the schools also. The two schools compete like cats and dogs for kids also even in 8th grade.
FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks »

Geez, it’s personal then. I feel like you might tell us next that the team moms have competing South County yoga studios embroiled in trade secret litigation.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

Sulick played for Hartigan at SM. Brought him back to SM as AD (some may say coach-in-waiting) after he was hired at SM.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks »

Are you suggesting Rich Fisher could be coaching for his job against the Lions? 6 straight losses to finish the year would be a tough close, but I think he’s a good football coach. They lost a ton after last season. Other than the Servite loss, not incredibly surprising results this year.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks »

Omar Bongo wrote: Remember playing war when you were kids and fighting over who got to be the Marines and who had to be the Germans?

Last night was like JSerra saying "Okay, I'll be you, and you can be Bosco"
I bet that sounded pretty witty in your head huh?
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

FatherSonHolyHldbcks wrote:Are you suggesting Rich Fisher could be coaching for his job against the Lions? 6 straight losses to finish the year would be a tough close, but I think he’s a good football coach. They lost a ton after last season. Other than the Servite loss, not incredibly surprising results this year.
Agree that this could be the case. The administrative players around Rich Fisher (they would be making a mistake if they fire him, although he just might leave on his own) all have a horse in the derby. The AD who hired him retired this year.

0-5 in the Trinity League and getting blown out by JSerra just might do the trick.
Last edited by daddyooo on Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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FatherSonHolyHldbcks wrote:I bet that sounded pretty witty in your head huh?
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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Rich Fisher isn't the answer. He isn't SM's worst coach - that honor goes to Rick Curtis - but every SM coach not named Fisher or Curtis was able to pull off at least one significant upset and more than likely no bad losses each year. Beating JSerra last year by a point just isn't good enough. Losing league games by five touchdowns isn't either. SM alums want wins over MD and Servite first. Those are bellwether programs. OLu and JSerra second. For really old timers beating Mission Viejo is more important that JSerra. There's a established pedigree there not an upstart flash in the pan. The alums are, sadly, for the most part indifferent to Bosco. SM has beaten MD teams - and in other years stayed relatively competitive with exceptional MD teams - that were significantly more talented than SM due to superior coaching and preparation. SM fans tend to point to recruiting and free tuition as the reason for MD's national rise at SM's expense but 16 year old kids are still 16 year old kids and Rallo has taken complete advantage of Harry Welch's departure to run laps around SM. To wit: If it weren't for a running clock the Laguna Hills scoreboard would have read 00-35 last year ... as in three digits.

There are ways for serious fans to gauge a coach beyond wins and losses. Somebody has to finish last in the Trinity League and it's a black eye for any proud program. One test you can try is the ole "who does he blame?" when things go start to go south during the game. Fisher seems to spend a lot of time getting in the face of players and not a whole lot of time getting in the face of his staff which tells you he's looking more and more like one of those "programs win games and players and refs lose games" kind of guys. You never want that guy in charge.

We can debate scheme all night, but we're looking at the big picture now and a big part of a head coach's job is surrounding yourself with exceptional assistants, and in particular top walk on assistants who are willing to drive an hour to SM each day for a couple hundred bucks a month. It will always be a challenge at Santa Margarita to attract high quality assistants because of it's remoteness relative to employment centers and public high schools where many SM assistants have hailed from. But Harry had coaches coming in from Santa Clarita and Riverside and from what I've heard staff quality has fallen off a cliff since Harry was let go. There's an old saying that football games are lost in January in the report cards, weightroom and staff room and this is still true today. Compounding this is that SM has also been notoriously stingy through the years when it comes to investing in substitute teacher positions for on-campus assistants, but I suspect that Jim Hartigan will change that. Top assistants will forsake stipends and convenience for rings and Harry and Jim brought hope that fans find wanting in Fisher.

I've never once heard a coach in South Orange County NOT say his staff is the best in the business, and Chad Johnson was the latest to parrot that one a few weeks back, and Fisher said it last year. It must be a talking point. But let's face it. It's a mathematical truth that half of America's coaches are below average and not all staffs are good enough. A bad staff in the Trinity League is a ticket to the unemployment line. In the Trinity League where you need to be better than good. SM is clearly behind MD in fundraising and enrollment and faces some locational issues that other Trinity League schools don't face. Therefore SM needs to have a staff that can win with brains. Honestly there are legal and ethical ways to upgrade the roster and staff for long term sustainable success that are apparently not being capitalized on and I have to imagine the administration is aware of this.

The best course of action is always to get rid of an underachieving staff a year too early than a year too late and it's clear that Fisher regressed too far this year to think that 2019 or 2020 will be materially different. My bet is on the JSerra game being Fisher's last at Santa Margarita.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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Wow! Tough crowd. Two third place finishes in a league that has Bosco and Mater Dei in it, is quite an achievement. So you had a down year this year. But those two previous years should count for something.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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Mr. Grady wrote:SM alums want wins over MD and Servite first
Losing to Servite this year probably sealed it for him...
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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Bryce-to-Bru single handedly destroyed the title of this thread. It needs to be retired.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks »

Omar Bongo wrote: FatherSonHolyHldbcks wrote:
AA0BD023-E368-456E-BEAE-384FAB76C55C.jpeg
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

Hate to tell you this-your big rival isn't MD or Bosco or Servite, It's JSerra. Given how Sulick had 10 busloads of kids shipped down to SJC last year, I can see he thinks likewise.

Time to face reality.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

Mr. Grady wrote:Rich Fisher isn't the answer. He isn't SM's worst coach - that honor goes to Rick Curtis - but every SM coach not named Fisher or Curtis was able to pull off at least one significant upset and more than likely no bad losses each year. Beating JSerra last year by a point just isn't good enough. Losing league games by five touchdowns isn't either. SM alums want wins over MD and Servite first. Those are bellwether programs. OLu and JSerra second. For really old timers beating Mission Viejo is more important that JSerra. There's a established pedigree there not an upstart flash in the pan. The alums are, sadly, for the most part indifferent to Bosco. SM has beaten MD teams - and in other years stayed relatively competitive with exceptional MD teams - that were significantly more talented than SM due to superior coaching and preparation. SM fans tend to point to recruiting and free tuition as the reason for MD's national rise at SM's expense but 16 year old kids are still 16 year old kids and Rallo has taken complete advantage of Harry Welch's departure to run laps around SM. To wit: If it weren't for a running clock the Laguna Hills scoreboard would have read 00-35 last year ... as in three digits.

There are ways for serious fans to gauge a coach beyond wins and losses. Somebody has to finish last in the Trinity League and it's a black eye for any proud program. One test you can try is the ole "who does he blame?" when things go start to go south during the game. Fisher seems to spend a lot of time getting in the face of players and not a whole lot of time getting in the face of his staff which tells you he's looking more and more like one of those "programs win games and players and refs lose games" kind of guys. You never want that guy in charge.

We can debate scheme all night, but we're looking at the big picture now and a big part of a head coach's job is surrounding yourself with exceptional assistants, and in particular top walk on assistants who are willing to drive an hour to SM each day for a couple hundred bucks a month. It will always be a challenge at Santa Margarita to attract high quality assistants because of it's remoteness relative to employment centers and public high schools where many SM assistants have hailed from. But Harry had coaches coming in from Santa Clarita and Riverside and from what I've heard staff quality has fallen off a cliff since Harry was let go. There's an old saying that football games are lost in January in the report cards, weightroom and staff room and this is still true today. Compounding this is that SM has also been notoriously stingy through the years when it comes to investing in substitute teacher positions for on-campus assistants, but I suspect that Jim Hartigan will change that. Top assistants will forsake stipends and convenience for rings and Harry and Jim brought hope that fans find wanting in Fisher.

I've never once heard a coach in South Orange County NOT say his staff is the best in the business, and Chad Johnson was the latest to parrot that one a few weeks back, and Fisher said it last year. It must be a talking point. But let's face it. It's a mathematical truth that half of America's coaches are below average and not all staffs are good enough. A bad staff in the Trinity League is a ticket to the unemployment line. In the Trinity League where you need to be better than good. SM is clearly behind MD in fundraising and enrollment and faces some locational issues that other Trinity League schools don't face. Therefore SM needs to have a staff that can win with brains. Honestly there are legal and ethical ways to upgrade the roster and staff for long term sustainable success that are apparently not being capitalized on and I have to imagine the administration is aware of this.

The best course of action is always to get rid of an underachieving staff a year too early than a year too late and it's clear that Fisher regressed too far this year to think that 2019 or 2020 will be materially different. My bet is on the JSerra game being Fisher's last at Santa Margarita.
Hate to tell you this-your primary rival is the one down the street that goes after the same kids you do, not the ones you wish you had 30 miles to the north. Sulick gets it-the 10 buses of kids he sent to San Juan Capistrano is the proof.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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"Hate to tell you this-your primary rival is the one down the street that goes after the same kids you do, not the ones you wish you had 30 miles to the north. Sulick gets it-the 10 buses of kids he sent to San Juan Capistrano is the proof."

You are half right. MD and Servite are rivals, SM doesn't fit in there. Bosco doesn't have a lengthy rivalry with anyone, either they were awful or ridiculously good. MD/Bosco may be developing into a rivalry. Olu doesn't have a rivalry either. JSerra and SM have many common threads (Sullick/Hartigan/Munoz) but there is still a healthy respect because they built the JSerra Football program, the real bad blood is down the street at MV and, for a short time Tesoro.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

interesting point about Tesoro. They stopped playing after one home-and-home.

Probably going to be a little less intense with MV with Bob Johnson gone. They now play every year-which up until 2010 or so they had never played.

Long term Jserra/SM will be large-they compete for the same kids, go to the same parishes, and have lots of common ties at all levels, which make for great rivalries. Throw in the administrative ties and it points to it eventually being the south county version of Mater Dei/Servite.

On another note-might there be the first MV/JSerra or MV/San Clemente game in the playoffs this year?
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by daddyooo »

also remember that SM is located in MV's attendance area, and Tesoro is the HS for half of Dove Canyon and all of Coto.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

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daddyooo wrote: Throw in the administrative ties and it points to it eventually being the south county version of Mater Dei/Servite.
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Re: A Bosco JSerra D1 final

Post by Mr. Grady »

You don't understand the SM psyche. A few wins over MD and MV over a 10 year period are worth far more than consecutive wins over JSerra. Even losses to JSerra don't hurt the way losses to MD or Servite or Mission Viejo do. Just a fact, Jack. Most diehard SM fans know which years exactly SM has beaten MD over the past 20 seasons, but they can't tell you who won the JSerra-SM game in 2015 or 2016. Who cares. SM alums know Andy Sullick is trying hard to develop a rivalry with JSerra, but the truth is a win on average every 3-4 four years vs MD is worth far more that four in a row vs JSerra. Sorry, it's just the truth.

SM will always be the younger brother to MD and JSerra will always be the younger brother to SM. The natural goal of any young tiger is to out-do the oldest sibling. Playing and beating big brother - even if it's occasionally and not regularly - means something. MD's reaction to losing to SM in 2013 was kind of like SM losing to JSerra in 2016. Meh. But MD's reaction to winning or losing to Servite is like SM's reaction to winning or losing to MD - a relatively big deal.
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