Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Red
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Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Red » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:32 am

Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games? I remember when I coached there were coaches and boosters from a certain high school talking to kids and their parents. I brought this up to Rollo once and he told me he couldn't even attend his Godson's or other family member's games because there would be numerous calls to the CIF. Which is it, legal or not legal?
Last edited by John Q. Public on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited the title
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Al Koholik
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Al Koholik » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:18 am

While I didn’t take the time to peruse the CIF bluebook, I’m gonna speculate that there is nothing “illegal” per se about a HS coach, head or assistant, attending a youth game. Our local Pop Warner used to play on our practice field about 25 yds from our office. We’d regualarly go out and watch for a spell here and there. And of course, if you have a kid or relative playing, there’s absolutely nothing preventing a coach from attending.

There are 2 things in play in such a situation;
1. Perception. That would be where Rollo’s attendance would be precarious. No matter the intent of his attendance, this forum is a perfect example of how such would be blown into a conspiracy theory.
2. Illegal contact/undue influence. If a coach was speaking to parents and/or kids about their “future”, as it were, there could be problems there.

But in these wild-west days of the transient athlete the overtures are overt and usually delivered by faithful minions of a program. Or ya just put the head of the most successful youth program in the area on your staff.

In the end, as I’ve heard straight from Wigods mouth, the CIF has neither the resources nor the inclination to investigate and/or pursue such cases. And it would have to be parents that ultimately drop the dime and they’d likely have to have proof such as a recorded conversation or the like. And how many parents of young athletes are gonna do that? They’re just basking in all the attention their kid is getting.

IMHO

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by MDDad » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:04 am

Al is absolutely right. Anybody, with the possible exception of pedophiles with restraining orders, can attend a youth football game. But if it's the head coach of a high school football program, it's best if he keeps his mouth shut and just watches.

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:47 am

Doesn’t seem like there is any clarification here on a “rule,” but staff members or program reps of both public and private schools are regularly seen ATTENDING not only youth games, but also youth camps, combines and passing leagues around the Southland.

To avoid suspicion of impropriety in public, the wisest/craftiest HS coaches/reps/etc. likely treat it like a version the NCAA “no bump” rule. Meaning they attend the event and make sure they are SEEN attending by certain talented kids and their families, but instead of speaking with them or having any contact, they simply get in contact later out of the spotlight (phone/email/HS visit,etc). With the proliferation of training groups and offseason teams for even pre-HS age kids, schools can easily get in contact with the top talent and their parents/guardians — even if through a third party.

And with a lot of the most talented youth players making “business decisions” to spend an extra year in middle school, programs have extra time to be in contact after first seeing them. So whether the coaches are at a PeeWee/Pop Warner game or not, it’s not like they can’t find a way to get in contact with and influence a youth player errrrrrr refer them to the appropriate school administrator.
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Omar Bongo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:51 pm

The Bluebook says that "Pre-Enrollment Contact" is not only

"any communication of any kind, directly or indirectly, with the student or parent/guardian/caregiver/relative/friend of the student about the athletic programs at a school"

but

"attendance at outside athletic or similar events by anyone associated with the school to observe the student"

Under "Do's and Dont's", it goes on to say:

Situation: Attendance at Pop Warner...games by high school coaches

Do's: Attend as a spectator, not as a representative of your high school promoting your athletic program

Dont's: Athletic Directors and high school coaches making contact with under high school age students/parents

Under the Q & A section:

Q: What contact may a coach have with a parent contemplating enrolling children at his/her high school?

A. The coach should refer ALL parent contact with reference to the high school athletic program and enrollment to the appropriate school administrator. Prior to enrollment, all parent contact must be handled by school administration, not members of the coaching staff.

Q. What may a high school coach do as far as having contact with 8th grade students?

A. Individual coaches cannot visit or initiate contact with middle school coaches until May 1st of the students 8th grade school year.

So taking all that into account, is it a problem at all that a certain private high school head football coach was openly chatting up Pop Warner players and their parents at a game this weekend? Would the CIF deem it be okay if he was just discussing, say, bagpipe technique?
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by MDDad » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:35 pm

First, it should be pointed out that those rules are broken every day. And yes, the head coach of a certain all-boys Catholic school was seen breaking them in spades this weekend, and not just with Pop Warner players and parents.

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Al Koholik
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Al Koholik » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:15 am

Yep. Those “guidelines” are breached with great regularity these days, and again, unless there is a smoking gun nothing will ever come of it.
As I alluded to previously, the most prudent course is to put the head of the most prolific youth football program (arguably in the country) on your staff.
While he’s a good guy, an alum and likely a good coach as well, we all know why a certain father is on staff at MD. It is what it is.
Thus, please no holier-than-thou finger-pointing when it comes to recruiting the youth leagues.

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:18 am

That go for recruiting from league rivals too? The corpse was still warm and the pitch was "You wanna beat MD? Come-onna my house"...
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by MDDad » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:42 am

Al Koholik wrote:As I alluded to previously, the most prudent course is to put the head of the most prolific youth football program (arguably in the country) on your staff.
What you say is true, but I think you're a few years behind the times. The head of the current U-14 national champions cut a sweetheart deal with a school that isn't MD to enroll much of his team en masse. And the head of the program you're referring to is receiving, uh, "consideration" for sending his best players to another school that isn't MD. And the head coach of a high school program that isn't MD is engaged in outright recruiting tactics like I've never seen before.

The defense isn't so much "holier than thou" as it is "you're cheating every bit as much or more than we are."

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Al Koholik
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Al Koholik » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:51 am

Behind the Times is probably an understatement. I understand and appreciate your perspective. As much as I despise the current climate, I know that if I were in the same position I’d either have to become part of the problem or walk away from the game. You do what you have to do to remain viable and competitive. And that’s all that matters in the Trinity and similar leagues. And what are you gonna do, tell a kid, “no, we don’t want you here”?
In the end, I’ll always go to my default disgust of irresponsible parenting. Two schools in 4 years, ok... I can live with that. Been going on for decades. But 3 or (f’n) 4 schools in 4 years is just bad parenting and it will manifest itself in the future in things that have nothing to do with football. So I put it SQUARELY on the parentsas they are ultimately the ones who allow it to happen.
I’ll tell you one thing... ANY college coach offers my 12 year old a scholarship he best never show his face again. Do people just not have any grasp of how a 12 or 13 year mind operates? It’s disgusting.
End of diatribe.

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by jb914 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:01 am

by Al Koholik » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:51 am
I’ll always go to my default disgust of irresponsible parenting.

Two schools in 4 years, ok... I can live with that. Been going on for decades. But 3 or (f’n) 4 schools in 4 years is just bad parenting and it will manifest itself in the future in things that have nothing to do with football. So I put it SQUARELY on the parentsas they are ultimately the ones who allow it to happen.

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by MDDad » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:31 am

Al Koholik wrote:In the end, I’ll always go to my default disgust of irresponsible parenting. Two schools in 4 years, ok... I can live with that. Been going on for decades. But 3 or (f’n) 4 schools in 4 years is just bad parenting and it will manifest itself in the future in things that have nothing to do with football. So I put it SQUARELY on the parents as they are ultimately the ones who allow it to happen.
Al, we've known each other for a very long time. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. But I couldn't agree more with what you said in that paragraph. For many years a head coach I respect always said, "It isn't the kids that have changed, it's the parents." And he was right. Unfortunately now a lot of the kids have changed as well...primarily because of the parents.

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by RPW » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:55 am

HS coaches also coach pop warner teams while wearing HS gear and teaching the HS playbook.

big deal.
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by SK80 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:32 pm

MDDad wrote:Al, we've known each other for a very long time. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. But I couldn't agree more with what you said in that paragraph. For many years a head coach I respect always said, "It isn't the kids that have changed, it's the parents." And he was right. Unfortunately now a lot of the kids have changed as well...primarily because of the parents.
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by templar83 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:05 pm

MDDad wrote: The head of the current U-14 national champions cut a sweetheart deal with a school that isn't MD to enroll much of his team en masse.
Since this group is likely to finish third in league, one has to wonder just how sweet this deal was for the high school we're all trying hard not to name.....

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:03 pm

RPW wrote: HS coaches also coach pop warner teams while wearing HS gear and teaching the HS playbook.
HS coaches also coach 4Verts teams**

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:32 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:So taking all that into account, is it a problem at all that a certain private high school head football coach was openly chatting up Pop Warner players and their parents at a game this weekend? Would the CIF deem it be okay if he was just discussing, say, bagpipe technique?
I thought I was reading The Onion for a minute. Mater Dei complaining about how a school that is not Mater Dei is attracting players? What's next--Bill Belichek complaining about underinflated footballs? Picking off other high schools' upperclassmen is obviously much more ethical.

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:00 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:Mater Dei complaining about how a school that is not Mater Dei is attracting players?
I'm Mater Dei? Okay... :roll:


What's next

Apparently you posting your passport photo...
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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:24 pm

MDDad wrote:First, it should be pointed out that those rules are broken every day. And yes, the head coach of a certain all-boys Catholic school was seen breaking them in spades this weekend, and not just with Pop Warner players and parents.
Glad you guys are all virgins now.

Sounds like the even the NSA conducts less surveillance that you guys. Don't you all have kids or grandkids to spend time with on the weekends, as opposed to loitering around the Pop Warner scene? Geez...

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Re: Is it legal for a head coach of a high school team to attend Pop Warner Football games?

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:33 pm

Maybe the message you're missing is that if you and the Professor didn't spend every other post complaining about Mater Dei and Bosco transfers/recruiting no one would give a **** about what Servite's doing.

Give it a try. See if you and your bookend can go a whole day without complaining about MD or Bosco. Then see if you can go 2 and then 3 days.

Then count the number of posts from "Mater Dei" in those 3 days complaining about Servite's transfers/recruiting.

I dare you.
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