Wow -interesting prep football ranking

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WantTheNFLBack714
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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:00 pm

so in other words, no other team in the U.S. is close in contention for mythical national champions against MD?

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:53 am

After this win over national #6 De La Salle, Mater Dei will obviously DROP a few spots in the USA Today poll, falling behind Permian and Euless Trinity from Texas, who haven’t played in weeks but will miraculously rise up ...

#Logic #ExpertPoll

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:45 am

I find that hard to believe, it's looking more than likely MD will finish number 1 in every national computer poll, unfortuneately, yes, I was rooting for DLS, because I can honestly say I don't like MD.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by cruiser » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:22 pm

The way I understand it, MD has played the most difficult SOS in the NATION, if the rating
systems take that into consideration, I can't see MD not getting national#1 in at least a couple
of the respected polls. (you only need make the Natonal#1 in one of the major polls, to
legally be the mystical national champion, fyi)


The five major HSFB polls are: Maxpreps (human/computer), USAtoday, Prep Nation,
HSFB America...... MD is already number#1 in four of them.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by joefutbol » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:42 pm

Undefeated Duncanville just beat an undefeated Southlake Carrol team 51-7, and they play undefeated Allen next weekend. On the opposite side of the bracket, Lake Travis is 13-1 and plays 14-0 Northshore. There will more than likely be an undefeated 6A champion in Texas, and Allen is currently #2 in the Xcellent 25.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:43 am

looks like MD's chances of repeating of National Champions just got increased more based on whats happening in Texas.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by Professor Fate » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:29 am

No matter what happens in Texas, Mater Dei will have to share their title...with:

Rancho Cucamonga
Cathedral
Roosevelt
Capital Christian
La Habra
Orange Lutheran
Serra
La Mirada
etc.
Make Them Cry Again In 2020

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:42 am

There will more than likely be an undefeated 6A champion in Texas, and Allen is currently #2 in the Xcellent 25

MaxPrepshas 2 polls. The "Xcellent 25" is the human poll...based on feelings, apparently. The computer poll, which crunches all the numbers, has Allen ranked #27 nationally and only #4 in Texas. Even if they run the table they won't have played or beaten any teams in the top ten (computer poll) nationally, while MD has beaten 4.

I've stated before, Allen's power rating is almost 30 points lower than MD's and their SOS is about half. Those are computer-derived stats, not feelings. That Allen is even in the conversation for national #1 without having played anyone is a complete joke.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by joefutbol » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:16 am

Yes, the poll is based on feelings. Just like every poll in NCAA football. And who do you think inputs the data? Other computers?

Allen or Duncanville will play two of the top three or four teams in Texas over the next two weeks.

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:11 am

joefutbol wrote:And who do you think inputs the data? Other computers?
Yeah, that's what I thought...

If humans enter numbers into a computer, do they enter their personal biases along with them?


Allen or Duncanville will play two of the top three or four teams in Texas over the next two weeks

What does that have to do with the national poll?
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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by OutOfState » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:40 am

Allen may indeed be great but the problem is we just don't know because their schedule is a joke. They will finally play teams with pulses these next 2 weeks so we will learn more about them. But their ranking by USAT now is only based on 'feeling' rather than objectivity.
If you compare schedules with MD and look at the national rankings of their best 10 opponents here is what the computer says:
Allen: 139, 216, 391, 414, 496, 692, 806, 809, 1328, 1422. Average = 671
MD: 2, 2, 3, 5, 9, 17, 26, 92, 115, 368. Average = 64
So in other words, MD has played 9 games against teams that are ranked higher than the best team that Allen has played this entire season.
To make it even more ridiculous if you average the rankings of the best 5 games for each team, Allen's opponents average 331 and MD's average 4.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by joefutbol » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:26 am

Omar Bongo wrote:Yeah, that's what I thought...

If humans enter numbers into a computer, do they enter their personal biases along with them?
I guess we'd have to ask the guys entering the numbers, but the numbers from the Maxpreps computer system are the same as Calpreps. I'd be interested to hear how Maxpreps developed their ranking formula. Calpreps has always inflated the ratings of California teams (I guess that would make sense), in my opinion. I'm guessing there are some personal biases involved.
Omar Bongo wrote:What does that have to do with the national poll?
Well, they are teams in the nation, so it has the same to do with the national poll as the Mater Dei/DLS game did. I'm not saying any of them are better than Mater Dei, but to leave an undefeated Texas 6A champion out of the discussion is a little closed minded... especially if they win convincingly in their next two games.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by joefutbol » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:31 am

OutOfState wrote: But their ranking by USAT now is only based on 'feeling' rather than objectivity.
Sure, and that's how national champions were crowned for the first 100 years. The system still isn't perfect, and it never will be... there are like 14,000 football teams out there.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by MDDad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:35 am

Here are the latest updated polls:

Massey - Mater Dei
Calpreps/Maxpreps Computer - Mater Dei
Maxpreps Human - Mater Dei
HighSchoolFootballAmerica - Mater Dei
PrepForce - Mater Dei
PrepNation - Mater Dei
USAToday - Allen

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by joefutbol » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:39 am

No dispute on my end, but Allen/Duncanville/North Shore/Lake Travis haven't even played their semifinal games. I think it's fair to let undefeated teams actually finish their seasons before we go crowning a champion.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by MDDad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:42 am

joefutbol wrote:I guess we'd have to ask the guys entering the numbers, but the numbers from the Maxpreps computer system are the same as Calpreps. I'd be interested to hear how Maxpreps developed their ranking formula. Calpreps has always inflated the ratings of California teams (I guess that would make sense), in my opinion. I'm guessing there are some personal biases involved.
Calpreps and Maxpreps both use the same computer rankings developed and perfected over the last 25 years by Ned Freeman. If there's a California bias in his algorithm, it's not nearly as pronounced as the pro-Texas and pro-Florida human bias in the USAToday rankings.
I'm not saying any of them are better than Mater Dei, but to leave an undefeated Texas 6A champion out of the discussion is a little closed minded... especially if they win convincingly in their next two games.
No one is proposing leaving Allen out of the discussion. But as OutOfState pointed out above, the quality of opponents Mater Dei and Allen have played is so overwhelmingly one-sided that the discussion shouldn't be very long.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by SK80 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:50 am

@OutOfState,

Are the rankings you used for Allen and MD opponents Maxpreps? If so CDM would rank (#151) as the second toughest opponent Allen would have faced.... :shock:
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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by joefutbol » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:57 am

Ned Freeman... of Calpreps? I'm pretty sure that's where he developed and perfected his rankings since 2001. And they changed drastically in 2002 or 2003. Yes, I'm saying there is bias in his algorithm. And yes, there is bias in the USA Today rankings.
MDDad wrote: the quality of opponents Mater Dei and Allen have played is so overwhelmingly one-sided that the discussion shouldn't be very long.
DLS won a championship finishing the season with Antioch and James Logan. Not every school gets to choose their league opponents. Not every school has the funds to travel across the country and beef up their strength of schedule. This is high school football, and that's quite an elitist attitude to have.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by OutOfState » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:05 am

SK80 wrote:@OutOfState,

Are the rankings you used for Allen and MD opponents Maxpreps? If so CDM would rank (#151) as the second toughest opponent Allen would have faced.... :shock:
These are from the calpreps rankings. I realize there are biases with calpreps.
And I agree with you, CDM would be a huge step up in quality of opponent for Allen.

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Re: Wow -interesting prep football ranking

Post by MDDad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:21 pm

joefutbol wrote:Not every school gets to choose their league opponents.
I agree. But that's no reason to ignore the strength of a league when ranking teams.
Not every school has the funds to travel across the country and beef up their strength of schedule.
I agree. And in this comparison, Mater Dei has never traveled across the country...to beef up their strength of schedule or for any other reason.
This is high school football, and that's quite an elitist attitude to have.
It's not elitist to suggest that the quality of teams a school plays should play a large role in where they are ranked relative to each other. Otherwise, undefeated North Dakota State should probably be ranked above two-loss Georgia.

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