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The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback - Page 3 - Orange County Forums

The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Bollweevil
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby Bollweevil » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:46 am

Being held back has nothing to do with flunking. Many good student athletes do it for athletic advantage.



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John Q. Public
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:04 am

I guess I'm not up on this unethical and potentially psychologically damaging behavior stuff. How is the extra year accounted for on the kid's transcripts? Do they take a year off or do they do 8th grade twice? Is there a box on the form for "Cuz I just liked it soooooo much!"? If he has to sit through material he learned the first time, what in the hell does that do to the kid's mind? And his GPA?
Don't look at me, I just work here.

aberamsey
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby aberamsey » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:13 am

They don't stay at the same school. They either attend a charter school or a private school and essentially treat it as a prep year. There are charter schools that are quasi home school set ups that cater to these situations. Kids do part of the education online and then attend school part of the week.

cruiser
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby cruiser » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:15 am

hmm, can't parents/guardians just keep the kid out of school for the academic year?
He/she can'not do any HS work though, it's starts the eligibility clock, as far as I know -
surprised parents/guardians have not thought to say/tell who wants to know, that the kid
took a gap year, ( you know traveling/learning/enriching one's self to different
cultures, races, creeds etc.,) as one does during the period of graduating HS to the
time of starting college, there are many HS graduates that do, do it - why not on
the 8th grade graduation level to the start of HS frosh year?

Just a thought,something one might dwell on....

Bollweevil
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby Bollweevil » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:17 am

It may also help them academically if they can enter as a freshman taking higher level math and science classes. If you were going to be a regular college prep student, taking another year in 8th grade with higher level 8th grade classes, you might be able to take Honors classes in HS.

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watchersince68
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby watchersince68 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:00 pm

JQP
I had a buddy that was held back in 8th grade and it did cause him real mental issues for years. However I really doubt this kind of holding back would cause any issues similair to his. I would argue it probably gives the kid a more of a superior attitude to other kids. Which I guess is an issue in it's own right. But the moral of the story I don't seeing it hurting the kid too bad. I would like to hear from kids who have gone through it and hear there stories.

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John Q. Public
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:16 pm

Especially the ones who didn't become Tom Brady after all, and the ones who didn't make the grade in college. People don't realize it but those things have huge impacts on kids, well beyond any advantage in sports.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

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watchersince68
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby watchersince68 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:24 pm

JQP
You have a legitimate point.

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watchersince68
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby watchersince68 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:38 pm

I do recall some years back a kid enrolling and playing basketball at MD that went through one of those "services" that had projected him, because of his gene pool to be 6' 10". The kid never got past 6 ft and never did much after high school. I suppose had he been one of those holdbacks it could have had long lasting effects.

RedPillWonderland
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby RedPillWonderland » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:42 pm

Is Sondheimer ghosting on our discussion board?

F18DDFFB-83ED-46C8-B41D-583B0BB6DC32.jpeg

WantTheNFLBack714
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby WantTheNFLBack714 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:57 pm

is he projected or expected to be a better QB than DJ is once he gets to high school? if so, I hope he ends up being to Bosco what J.T. Daniels was to MD, because J.T. Daniels was already one of the highest ranked, I think even the number 1 youth QB before he entered High School.

OutOfState
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby OutOfState » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:33 pm


KuppRunneth
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby KuppRunneth » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:51 pm

Who's projected to be better? Clarkson or Malachi Nelson?

BoscoBandWagon
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby BoscoBandWagon » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:47 am

Kupprunneth
Both are talented. Time will tell. Nelson has more upside since he is not as polished as clarkson who has been groomed since day 1 with daddy clarkson aka qb guru. Nelson has a much higher ceiling. Plus with clarkson you get all the daddy-ball issues.
Clarkson coached both the clausens 1 who Is the HC and his brother who is the oc at alemany. Daddy knows he will have a bigger say in how things operate over there at alemany. He would not have the same luxury at md or bosco.

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Al Koholik
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby Al Koholik » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:22 am

Holding a kid back to repeat any grade, especially 7th or 8th, for anything other than serious academic deficiencies is IRRESPONSIBLE PARENTING. Not unlike the BAD PARENTING that transfers their kids around to 3 or 4 schools in 4 years.
It doesn’t take much to find studies that support my assertions. Both short and long-term manifestations of which none are positive with respect to social, emotional and educational growth or lack thereof.
And when you calculate the real-life odds of being a big-time athlete (special DNA required) the negative impact on the child is FAR greater and more profound than the minuscule chance that young man will achieve any more success in sports than he would had he advanced, naturally, with his class. Elite athletes are elite athletes, no ones DNA (the ultimate and final word on athletic potential) changes with age.
The streets of HS athletics are littered with the remains of hold-backs AND transfers whose efforts to gain an advantage have proven absolutely fruitless. Probably 90%. Seen it. Lived it. Coached it. The math is accurate. Because if you think the only ones engaging in this are those high profile kids you read about here and elsewhere, you are sorely misguided. For everyone you read about here there are 10 more crazy dads out there living the same pipe-dream and screwing up their kids in ways they have no clue about.
Kinda funny how kids who do 2, 3 and 4 HS’s in a career exhibit the exact same pattern in college. Multiple transfers. See Ricky Town. Elite 11. How many colleges? Including a JC (the dirtiest word to an idiot football dad). The list is endless.
How’s that going to work out when the going gets tough on the job? In marriage? Fatherhood?
The truth and nothing but.

hit the lights
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby hit the lights » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:27 am

Al ko,
Well said!

credofriar
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby credofriar » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:07 am

Al Koholik
I agree but we are close to being in the minority in regards to holdbacks. Seems like so many more players years after year are holdbacks. We have a higher number of them last year. Everybody talks about our talented freshman group but the best player Noah and TMack are both holdbacks along with many others.

aberamsey
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby aberamsey » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:47 am

I'm not a fan of holdbacks. My son played at a Trinity League school and was not a hold back. He was a solid, two-year starter, but I often wondered what it would have been like if he had been held back, from an opportunity standpoint. He essentially played with players older than him in the grade below. There was clear advantages.

In regards to it being a negative socially and academically based on Al Ko's post I'd love to see some data on that. It is nonsensically to think there would be a negative effect athletically and academically. Socially, it would make sense, to a point. But what you have to realize is that all of these holdbacks are often attending schools different than the schools they were reared in, so they aren't necessarily falling behind socially with their peer group-- they are entering school with a new peer group. Academically you are essentially repeating a grade in middle school and getting a full year to take the same math and science classes you already took. This may be boring for the student but is a clear advantage. Athletically you end up competing at the same grade level with players you are a full year older than-- that is a clear advantage.

As a freshman my son was 5'8" and 180 lbs. By his sophomore year he was 6', 220 lbs. You can't tell me that playing as a freshman in the Trinity League four inches taller and forty pounds heavier he wouldn't have had an advantage. The idea that holding someone back doesn't help them athletically flies in the face of reason.

It was well documented in the Malcolm Gladwell book Outliers that players who are older than their competition have an advantage. They are typically bigger and stronger and have hit full puberty in most cases. This leads to more playing time, which equals more reps and more attention from the coaches. Gladwell wrote about Canadian hockey players on how the NHL had a statistically improbable number of players who were born early in the year, thus often playing against players in their same age group nearly a full year younger. It is well documented.

https://www.arcticicehockey.com/2008/12 ... aking.html

I don't love the idea of holdbacks, but to assert that there is a negative impact on the student is illogical.

BigBosco
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby BigBosco » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:54 am

I completely agree with Al.

As a parent, holding your child back for athletic reasons really gets under my skin! I try not to judge families that do this, but it's hard!

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Al Koholik
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Re: The Next Saint John Bosco Quarterback

Postby Al Koholik » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:58 pm

Aber... when I have a minute I’ll provide you with studies. But your assertion that it is illogical to portend negative manifestations from late-grade hold-backs and multiple transfers lacks a foundation of reason and your argument, with support from that crazy-haired genius, that an older kid is likely more physically mature, is stating the overtly obvious.
What I will tell you, and what I know as fact, is that college recruiters can, and now regularly do, identify 8th graders, and younger, who have the (you choose what you want to call it) rare God-Given talent or DNA, that projects to success at a high level in college. It’s not about stats either but rather the way the kids foot hits the ground when he runs. His hip, ankle and knee flexion. His fluidity of movement. His change of direction efficiency. Of course, raw speed. Natural, physical traits that can be developed, but not taught. It’s not too hard to identify if you’ve been doing it a while. After that, it’s all intangibles and thus always a roll of the dice. But you don’t roll dice on anyone that doesn’t have the things you can’t teach. The god-given talent. The DNA.
That being said, the argument of gaining an advantage with regard to college recruitment is somewhat flawed. And to be sure, college recruiters are well aware of chronological age and the phrase “topped-out” is a common one among them when referring to older recruits.
Yes. There are many who develop later and have success out of JC. And recruiters do miss a kid now and then. But in this digital and social media age, as well as the proliferation of camps and combines and 7’s tourneys, it’s a rare occurance.
And to be clear. Just talking about late-grade hold backs. Kindergarten, while I still don’t agree with the premise of doing so for purely athletic motives, is a much different scenario with regard to the possible negative effects and manifestations.

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