basketball state playoffs

daddyooo
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by daddyooo » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:54 pm

Only other HS's with similar long-term history of success to MD are in LA Unified: Westchester and Fairfax. Westchester will have coaching transition in next few years (Azzam is in late 60's)-Fairfax has successfully navigated this transition with the hiring of Steve Baik (former Chino Hills coach) who is positioned for a long run much as his predecessor Harvey Kitani was. Going to Fairfax was a no-brainer for Baik-he'll always have access to talent, good booster support and can win big for the next 30 years.

Exocet 98
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by Exocet 98 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:12 pm

Daforno wrote:Sierra Canyon was very talented this year and clearly was the best team in the CIF open division. No one close.

But next year they become a memory ( they lose I believe 4 kids ) and MD with their first 6 players returning will once again be in the top 1 or 2.

Last year MD beat Sierra Canyon, Sierra beats MD pretty even, but then all the pretenders go away.

Remember Chino Hills owned it for a while? teams come and go and have their run, but MD year after year is ALWAYS at the top.

Name a program with the success MD has had the past 30 years
Crenshaw, 18 City Championships. 8-0 in the State Championships. 1 World Championship. :mrgreen:

daddyooo
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by daddyooo » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:40 pm

in their heyday it was a dynasty. It hasn't been for at least 10 years-and with less than 1000 kids in the HS (school is an academic disaster area) won't be back anytime soon.

daddyooo
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by daddyooo » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 pm

small-school dynasties: Santa Clara/Oxnard when Lou Cvijanovich was coach (829 wins over 42 years)-in this day and age with modern transfer rules they probably would have ended up in Open Division at some point. He died last December age 92.

OutOfState
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by OutOfState » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:10 am

McKnight has been at MD 36 years and the train keeps rolling. Difference now from years past is greater parity. I agree with exocet (can’t believe I said this :D ) that Crenshaw is the other Cali team besides MD with the best history, although they are only a shadow of what they were when Willie West was leading them. The best high school player I ever saw was John Williams from Crenshaw. I vividly remember seeing him almost single handily beat MD in 1983 in the SoCal final. Crenshaw was the city champ and it was McKnights first year and they won the southern section, the first of MANY.

Next year MD will be nationally ranked. Rancho Christian should be up there too. I’m pretty sure Corona Centennial has 3-4 juniors starting this year so I would expect to see them contend also next year.

daddyooo
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by daddyooo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:17 am

agree on the fact that there's a lot more parity in HSBB. MD has had to share the TL title with Bosco the last few years; the 2-3-4-5 teams in the TL all have multiple high major players and in the case of Orange Lutheran, a potential NBA lottery pick.

That's just one league-the Gold Coast, Baseline, Big VIII and Mission Leagues are very strong;

Over time the parents in say Crenshaw's district figured out that they had better options either at other schools in LAUSD or in the privates; hence the rise of programs like Westchester, Fairfax (neither in predominantly black areas) and the Gold Coast/Mission League privates.

Out in the burbs-youth leagues improves, trainers became common, and as a result the quality of basketball in say the Marmonte or South Coast Leagues (to give 2 examples) is much higher than it was when I moved to southern CA in the last 70's. I remember watching a game at Thousand Oaks HS and seeing mostly three-sport athletes and guards that could only dribble with one hand. You wouldn't see that today-basic basketball skills have been mastered and the coaching is generally pretty good (not always the case years ago).

Even if you don't go to one of the 4 leagues mentioned above-you still see Pac-12 level players coming from the likes of Moorpark HS (Drake London), Camarillo (Jaquez), and Los Altos Jarod Lucas-just to name a few examples this year.

Another thing-top talent tends to stay in HS and not go the prep route like they do in many areas of the country.

Parity is probably the biggest reason why the likes of Kenyon Martin, Scottie Pippen, etc. moved here with their families-there is no where else in the country where they will be tested night-in, night-out like here in southern CA.

WantTheNFLBack714
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:55 am

I think the last time MD won state, in Boys Basketball, was Stanley Johnson's senior year

Exocet 98
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by Exocet 98 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:59 pm

OutOfState wrote:McKnight has been at MD 36 years and the train keeps rolling. Difference now from years past is greater parity. I agree with exocet (can’t believe I said this :D ) that Crenshaw is the other Cali team besides MD with the best history, although they are only a shadow of what they were when Willie West was leading them. The best high school player I ever saw was John Williams from Crenshaw. I vividly remember seeing him almost single handily beat MD in 1983 in the SoCal final. Crenshaw was the city champ and it was McKnights first year and they won the southern section, the first of MANY.

Next year MD will be nationally ranked. Rancho Christian should be up there too. I’m pretty sure Corona Centennial has 3-4 juniors starting this year so I would expect to see them contend also next year.
Watching the Final, During timeouts McKnight continually stood outside /behind the players that huddled up facing the assistant who was running the show repeatedly. McKnight seemed confused and out of place and had no instructions to offer during a game ending run for the title in which md choked and collapsed. Is McKnight in charge of md hoops ? md now has a 4 year absence in the State Champoinship. :mrgreen:

cruiser
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by cruiser » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:13 pm

It seems even though you highly dislike MD, you still want to watch their athletic teams play
each and every year. You are aware there is a well established psych theory about one who
does that, don't you? And it's not positive.

TrainSoCa
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by TrainSoCa » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Rancho Christian has picked up as a top competitor quickly! Any other private schools in the IE? The public IE schools seem to be holding their own as well...etiwanda, Rancho verde, corona centennial

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:17 pm

Kenyon Martin and Scottie Pippen didn’t “move here with their families” because of CIF parity. Sierra Canyon won most of their games by big margins. Kenyon and Scottie moved here because they wanted to live in LA/SoCal.

Sierra Canyon is a school for celebrity kids that happens to have developed a powerhouse hoop program. If they wanted their kids to be tested night in and night out they could have played at Montverde, Oak Hill, Findlay or any other prep hoops academy.

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:32 pm

daddyooo wrote: Over time the parents in say Crenshaw's district figured out that they had better options either at other schools in LAUSD or in the privates; hence the rise of programs like Westchester, Fairfax (neither in predominantly black areas)
What is the point of saying Westchester or Fairfax are “neither in predominantly black areas”?? Hmmmm ....

Is that a baseless, laughable suggestion that all time city wins leader Ed Azzam at Westchester and Harvey Kitani (now Steve Baik) at Fairfax have only fielded good hoop teams since the 80s because “parents in say Crenshaw’s district” purposely sent their kids there instead?? LOL

You clearly know nothing about LA or LA HS basketball. I guess Solomon Hill and Trevor Ariza were fleeing from the ‘Shaw huh? Wow ](*,) :lol:

daddyooo
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by daddyooo » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:41 pm

didn't say Crenshaw ....did say that that if there was a glut of talent at Crenshaw (the talent pool there was so rich that there were stories of kids who barely played at Crenshaw or even got cut that went on to higher level basketball) kids/parents would go find situations where they can be showcased for colleges.

What percentage of those kids at Westchester or Fairfax (BTW-I went to LMU and lived near the school) playing basketball lived within the primary attendance area? I bet not many. Talent will always find a way to be showcased. If it wasn't on an intra-district transfer to schools far from their homes, it would be at a private school.

Given the state of inner-city LAUSD education (Crenshaw lost it's accreditation in 2005) wouldn't you look for better opportunities for your child, no matter how far away it is? Parents aren't dumb.

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:54 pm

You CLEARLY said Crenshaw. No reason to back off that now unless you’re regretting your comments and backpedaling like a DB at the NFL Combine.

You apparently are an expert on alleged “unaccredited schools” offering “inner-city LAUSD education” in “predominantly black areas” with a “glut of [basketball] talent.” Not sure if I left out any of your code language there, veiled or unveiled. :roll:

But just to update your research, the LA Times called the 2005 loss of accreditation you referenced a “largely bureaucratic snafu,” and Crenshaw HS is currently accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges.

Not that that matters to you, because all families there should clearly hate themselves and their neighborhood, and should encourage their kids to immediately flee to Westchester, Fairfax, or some private school. :bonk:

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:01 am

By the way, it’s interesting to the rest of us that you’re still talking sideways about Crenshaw, despite claiming that you “didn’t say Crenshaw.” Doubling down actually, mentioning some vague, ambiguous, undated “stories” about the ‘Shaw program. “Stories” of ‘Shaw “kids/parents finding situations where they could be showcased for colleges.” What are some examples of these alleged “stories”?

You should know of course, because you “went to LMU and lived near the school.” And we know that by the simple nature of living in WEST LA while attending a private Catholic college, LMU coeds become immersed experts on LA culture, the LAUSD and parental decision-making by Crenshaw/“inner city” residents. :neutral:

Since you majored in telling other people how to live their lives and apparently are an expert on the rivalry, why don’t YOU tell us what percentage of Westchester/Fairfax basketball players are coming from “outside the primary attendance area”?? Shoot, maybe we’ll just take your word for it, and your willingness to bet on it, as assurance that there’s no way those kids are actually from there!! Look at them! ](*,)

daddyooo
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by daddyooo » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:13 am

Crenshaw had over 3000 kids in it's heyday. Less than 1000 now.

SK80
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by SK80 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:08 am

Let me shed some light being that I have lived and owned homes within blocks of Fairfaix High School and that small gym know as "FAX HOUSE" since 1990.

Without going into the long deep history of the high school the "Fairfax District" has been the center hub of the Jewish community for generations and for the most part still. Trying to leave all the politics aside some decades ago the kids of the areas Jewish populations attend Jewish and/or other privates in which LA and especially West LA are rife with.

The student body make up today of Fairfax is quite different than its history and an area that boasts multi and I mean MULTI million dollar homes in that zip code does not represent the local residential demographic growing and resideing around it. Fairfax High School is bordered by the Fairfax District, Melrose, Park La Brea, Larchmont and West Hollywood.

For decades my tax dollars went to support my local public high school so i have observed Fairfax up close. Being the HS sports junkie that I am I was a constant attendee to Fax Basketball. There is nothing better than a Chester - Fax LA City Hoop battle. Even better at the Fairfax gym with its old vibe small size combined with near NBA players on the hardwood the environment is electric. Downside you better get to the gym 3 hours before a game if you want any chance to get in.

In recent years Fairfax has expanded it's areas served going all the way to Los Angeles High School to the east and Hamilton to the west. The boundaries are vast. Westchester's area probably represents a little closer to what the student body and families reside. Either way, once you get north or west LA high schools they rate at which non local kids attend is much higher. Schools south or South (central) LA tend to enroll kids from the neighborhood at a higher rate.

Both Westchester un Azzam and Fairfax under Kitani built programs that attract the best players from LA City. And with the explosion of Privates now offering dream scenarios to skilled kids and their parents whom would stay for example at The "Shaw" if a school like Windward, Crossroads, Sierra Canyon waive the $36,000 price tag? It is amazing to me now that Fax and Chester have kept in the game against these privates. It is the rich tradition and some what of a street crew to play there. We will see how long that lasts.

The examples mentioned above about the schools like Crenshaw and I will add Compton and Dominguez to those likes, is that they are collapsing as educational and athletic destinations. When I lived in the fairfax/Melrose district I would drive down to Compton Dominguez to watch Tyson Chandler play. Dominguez Basketball was the dominant team for some time.

@FSHH, not sure what you are so defensive about, but there is much truth that since the time you specified bot Fax and Chester have fielded players from outside the area. But then again when talking area in LA Unified it is vast so in a traditional sense they are yet within what LAUSD allows. Trust me, in decades of living in LA and specifically the Fairfax/Melrose/West Hollywood area I can tell that the players on the Lions varsity did not live remotely close or in the direct neighborhoods around the campus. In fact with less than 10% of the student body being white it is those kids that actually walk a few blocks to school. The Melrose area just north of the campus is Russian and made up of various ex soviet immigrants.
"don't try to tell people what I think when they can read what I actually said and I won't return the favor, okay?" ~ O. Bongo

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:59 pm

LOL what?? Congrats on home ownership and LA connections, but you need to point that Corona Del Mar finger in another direction with regard to “defensiveness.” I’m not the one backpedaling and bumbling off of empty and/or false claims about Crenshaw HS and that community. That’s someone else. And although it’s unique to read through your Fairfax/“street crew” soliloquy, its unclear what your apperent LA real estate grab has to do with anything.

I know people that STILL ACTUALLY LIVE IN that area, not just “own homes” there. And you don’t know any more than they do about where the hoop players at Fairfax (or Westchester) live. They’d be speculating based upon looks and race, just like you are. I didn’t say what area any kid did or didn’t come from, you and the LMU guy above did. I said that no one (now including you) has any actual knowledge of that, or has named a single player that they know for a fact is from outside anyone’s attendance area. As if naming even a star player who comes from elsewhere would prove Fax/West have been building their teams as you say they have.

Your claim that there is “much truth” to these claims is, I suppose, based solely on your opinion, the LA Russian immigrant census and your best guesses??

FatherSonHolyHldbcks
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by FatherSonHolyHldbcks » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:15 pm

Also, nothing you said provided any support for the ridiculous assertion made above that some type of exodus from Crenshaw or other “inner city LAUSD” schools to “non predominately black areas” led to “the rise of Westchester/Fairfax” and private schools.

And now we’ve got the person who made those claims falling backward, grasping at straws, quoting bare, unverified enrollment guesses as if that will distract from his empty, condescending speculation. I guess the enrollment of every SoCal high school has stayed exactly the same since the 80s? It’s not like countless new high schools have opened, or that there have been any changes in districts, or constant change in communities. “Enrollment has gone down: evidence!” :lol:

SK80
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Re: basketball state playoffs

Post by SK80 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:50 pm

Sorry dude lived there for 20 years, you are way off base with your assessment of others. What exactly is a "real estate" grab? Are you against home ownership, let me say occupied homeownership? Are you really going to tell and teach me about my neighborhood of 20 years? Get over yourself.

Claims? Do we need to claim anything? No need the wonderful world of the internet can tell you almost anything you need to know like lets see, Fairfax players proudly present where they live so according to you even the student-players a laying out false claims. Carson, Culver City, Inglewood and so on.... So you better call your real friends whom really live in the Fax-Hood and ask them again! :lol:
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LOL, Dinwiddie still has Culver City HS on his twitter! #TRANSFER !

This is Fairfax basketball, a great program with great coaches (Kitani my all-time fave) that attracts kids (best players) from all over LA City. It's allowed, no harm no foul if it's in the rules but claiming these kids live in the neighborhood or area is preposterous.

Google Renaldo Sydney maybe the most sought after guy and similar to Zion Williams...., it was a huge recruiting war to get him to leave Artesia High School. Fairfax won. Sydney unfortunately succumbed to the antics of his parents similar to the Ball kids.
"don't try to tell people what I think when they can read what I actually said and I won't return the favor, okay?" ~ O. Bongo

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