Trinity league basketball

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:04 pm

although not related to Trinity League basketball, a legendary High School basketball coach passed away, Morgan Wootten of DeMatha, Gary McKnight of MD, I believe has been compared to him in terms of long-term consistency of success, the success of MD under McKnight has been comparable to Bob Hurley and Morgan Wootten, both of them were Head Coaches at High Schools on the East Coast, I don't think any West Coast High School, has come close to MD's success under McKnight, the late Willie West of Crenshaw I think might be the only one but still not even close to MD's success under McKnight. But McKnight's success is similar to Morgan Wootten and Bob Hurley's.

Reason why I bring this up, the late Morgan Wootten coached at Dematha for 46 years, this is McKnight's 38th season at MD, you think he will last longer than 46 seasons at MD?

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by frankieboy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:33 pm

If there is one coach I would not want to have to work against in a game that counts-it's McKnight. The Santa Margarita game last year and JSerra game tonight is more proof of this. Not just a guy who managed to get all the talent to play for him-he prepares his teams to play better than anyone else.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by avonbarksdale » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:07 am

Whispers - is Servite going to beat MD in hoops for the first time since Eddie Rubio danced on their graves in '91?

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by dont be that guy » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:15 am

frankieboy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:33 pm
If there is one coach I would not want to have to work against in a game that counts-it's McKnight. The Santa Margarita game last year and JSerra game tonight is more proof of this. Not just a guy who managed to get all the talent to play for him-he prepares his teams to play better than anyone else.
..and it helps that he gets the best talent for decades. 95% of games he's won, he could roll the ball out there and go home. Don't act like he's some basketball genius. Sierra Canyon's coach didn't just become a great coach.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by watchersince68 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:57 pm

dontbethatguy
Md has had some very good High School ballers, however very few have really made it big time. My point is they are well coached to play very good team ball which makes them always look better than possibly they really are. Put them in the NBA and some college "its all me" environment and they don't prosper. So good coaching must have something to do with that.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by dont be that guy » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:06 pm

watchersince68 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:57 pm
Md has had some very good High School ballers, however very few have really made it big time. My point is they are well coached to play very good team ball which makes them always look better than possibly they really are. Put them in the NBA and some college "its all me" environment and they don't prosper. So good coaching must have something to do with that.
I’m sure it had something to do with it but it’s like 90/10% talent to coaching. For over 20 years MD had 2-3 of the best players in OC on their team and the other 4-5 would be high level starters elsewhere. It’s not coaching brilliance when you are bringing D1 talent off the bench.

The reason that most of the MD stars have struggled at the next level was that they never had to struggle in High School. They were pampered AAU stars who always won. The first time they had to sit the bench or earn playing time, they quit and transferred. There is a long list of MD Alumni who fit that description.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by benotafraid » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:57 pm

Respectfully disagree with DBTG and watcher. Seems to me that over the decades MD players are very well polished/ coached. They often have therefore come closer to maxing out on their talents. Players from other programs may not be as well coached in high school, but many times it allows for continued development to manifest in college. I don’t think that MD players are necessarily soft or pampered, they just get passed up in college.

But what do I know? I watch two high school games a year whether I need to or not.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:29 pm

dont be that guy wrote:It’s not coaching brilliance when you are bringing D1 talent off the bench.
Surely you can name all these future D1 bench warmers, yes?
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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:36 pm

yup, even Stanley Johnson, who has without a doubt, has had the best post-MD basketball career, has not even accomplished what Klay Thompson of Santa Margarita has done, a max-deal NBA contract and even made the all-star team. Even though Stanley Johnson has played in more NBA games than any MD player under McKnight, it's still kind of a shock it took MD to produce a player like Stanley Johnson, because McKnight was already like in his 30th season at MD when Stanley Johnson arrived.

I read this on another forum, it said kinda what has been discussed before:

"I've heard lots of speculation as to why MD players have not been successful in the NBA. One reason is that MD players pretty much have approached their ceiling at the end of high school because they have been so coached up. You won’t likely see a ‘raw talent’ that all of a sudden flourishes after playing at MD. A small percent of NBA players were McDonalds All Americans. Most of them were obviously very good high school players but they really came into their own and flourished once going to college."

Of course didn't mention that MD's system or style of play means playing very well as a team, excellent teamball, but no doubt that is another factor as to why the post MD life for majority of their players is shocking, weird, due to all of the winning they had in high school.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Omar Bongo » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:08 am

You ever stop to think that if it was really so shocking and weird you wouldn't have to keep telling us how shocking and weird it is?

And there are only a handful of players in the world who have accomplished what KT has at the pro level, so your point there was...what?

I guess MD will just have to settle for dominating OC for decades and winning CIF and State over and over and over and wonder what might have been :roll:
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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Kuppster » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:22 am

do you really not understand what they are talking about Omar? Take your MD shades off for a second and read. They aren't criticizing the MD hoops program and their accomplishments. The talk is its weird MD, given their phenomenal history as a top Cali program, none of their guys have made an impact at the NBA level.

Remember, the original topic (i know, hard for you) was McKnight wasn't the reason why they were great (which is a little baffling to me) and that it was mostly due to the great players they had. "Players made McKnight great." And then it went to "but the players never really made an impact in the league, so was it really the coaching?

Come on man. Stop being stubborn. You really can't be this dense.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Omar Bongo » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:18 am

do you really not understand what they are talking about

Who's "they"? It's the same guy over and over again...you know who I'm talking about, dontcha?

And just the opposite, I totally get why "he" skips right past all the tremendous accomplishments to search for something innocuous to nitpick...I totally get it.

Turn it around and question why most all of those "other" schools who have turned out NBA players haven't enjoyed a tenth of the success that MD has. Or turn it into a complement - MD is able to win without superstar players because they play smart team ball...

Obviously, if you're just searching for criticisms you can find them anywhere...is this news to you?
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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Omar Bongo » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:22 am

PS- Your weak, childish attempts to insult just make you look...yeah, you guessed it
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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Kuppster » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:37 am

you need help. Seek it.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by MDDad » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:53 am

Gary McKnight has won well over 1,000 games in 35 years, along with a gazillion CIF and state championships. You don't do that unless you get incredible talent, or you're an outstanding coach. The problem in this thread is that critics are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Out of one side they're saying his players are failures in college and the NBA because they are maxed out in high school from being so "coached up". Out of the other side they're saying McKnight is a crap coach you only wins because he always gets "D-1" players. You can't have it both ways.

His record is proof that Gary McKnight is the greatest high school basketball coach in California history. The fact that he's accomplished that without a ton of raw college and NBA talent is evidence that he's also one of the best. So those who criticize both his coaching ability and the talent of his players can suck it.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by Kuppster » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:01 am

Agreed.

Its a combo or great coaching and players. Player success is not dependent on what they do or don't do in the league.

The league is just a whole other animal.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:41 am

exactly, in response to Kuppster, I was not criticizing or hating on the MD basketball program, "They aren't criticizing the MD hoops program and their accomplishments. The talk is its weird MD, given their phenomenal history as a top Cali program, none of their guys have made an impact at the NBA level."

exactly, it's easy and normal to think, assume, that being the most decorated HS hoops program in state history, you would think that it would have produced at least 1 or maybe more than that, a player who has made a major impact in the college and NBA level, yet MD has done none of that.

For example, Klay Thompson at Santa Margarita, only Trinity league school to turn out a max-contract NBA deal, hasn't achieved a 10th or a fraction of the amount of success MD has done under McKnight. When you said "there are only a handful of players in the world who have accomplished what KT has at the pro level, so your point there was...what?"

my point is, is because the high school he came from, Santa Margarita, hasn't achieved a 10th or fraction of the amount of success MD has done under McKnight, while MD hasn't produced an NBA player like that, since MD has won way more championships, you would think more championships, means more talented players who succeed after high school. I've mentioned other NBA players who came from High Schools in California as well, whose schools they came from, haven't achieved a 10th or fraction of the amount of success MD has had, my mindset is the same in which I described what KT has done at the Pro Level.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by benotafraid » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:04 am

Taking into account what I discovered here, I have changed my mind, Mater Dei basketball/coaching/players are not lacking in anything. Fact is, reaching NBA status is just plain difficult, and I see no anomalies.
Taking into account what I discovered here, I have changed my mind, Mater Dei basketball/coaching/players are not lacking in anything. Fact is, reaching NBA status is just plain difficult, and I see no anomalies.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:24 am

which reminds me, LeRon Ellis, Reggie Geary, Stanley Johnson, are the only MD players to have lasted a full season in the NBA, and Jamal Sampson came close. But it definetley looks like Stanley Johnson will finally be their first long-term NBA player, still hard to believe it took MD that long given their long history of monster success and number of players who have gone on to D-1 colleges, since McKnight was already like in his 30th season when Stanley Johnson arrived. Yes i know I have said that dozens of times, but it's true.

From a non-NBA perspective but college perspective, I would say Miles Simon is the MD player who had the most successful college career, MVP of the 1997 Final Four. All other MD star players or MD players who went on to play D-1 college ball, were just mainly average college players from how it seems.

Here's something else thats interesting, even though he is no longer playing in the NBA, Landry Fields, who went to Los Al, he lasted longer in the NBA than every MD player who made it to the NBA that is not named Stanley Johnson, and Los Al has won only 2 CIF section titles and zero state titles in Boys Basketball. That definetley says a lot. That's in response to the list of CA HS's that have sent most players to the NBA.

Also, in response to this quote: "The reason that most of the MD stars have struggled at the next level was that they never had to struggle in High School. They were pampered AAU stars who always won. The first time they had to sit the bench or earn playing time, they quit and transferred. There is a long list of MD Alumni who fit that description."

Absolutely, it has even been covered in the media, news articles, how MD players have that trend of transferring a lot in colleges, switch a lot from their original school of choice at a high rate:
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/rec ... ring-often
https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2 ... story.html

Even Taylor King and David Bagga, who played basketball at MD, have admitted to being pampered while there.

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Re: Trinity league basketball

Post by WantTheNFLBack714 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:49 pm

different post now, as in, not about the post MD-life for their star, great players, while I know that the worst ever loss on the scoreboard for MD under McKnight, was when Chino Hills and the ball brothers destroyed them.

I read on another forum, that the worst loss ever for MD under McKnight, as in, that is the most painful and haunting loss for him, is the 1984 CIF title game between MD and LB Poly, in which MD returned all 5 starters from the year before from the 1983 CIF title team, MD kept feeding the ball to Tom Lewis in that game, who Poly was determined to stop. McKnight still talks about the lessons learned from that game. I believe that was McKnight's 2nd season as Head Coach at MD.

Is that true, anyone can verify that? what are some other notable upset losses for MD under McKnight in which MD was the odds on favorites but lost a heartbreaker?

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