Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public place

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GOODave
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Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public place

Post by GOODave » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:27 pm

Hemet, CA ...

Your California Penal Code Section 602.1 (the section under which these men were charged) is pretty specific. I won't cite the entire section, but in relevant part, it notes:
(a) Any person who intentionally interferes with any lawful
business or occupation carried on by the owner or agent of a business
establishment open to the public, by obstructing or intimidating
those attempting to carry on business, or their customers, and who
refuses to leave the premises of the business establishment after
being requested to leave by the owner or the owner's agent, or by a
peace officer acting at the request of the owner or owner's agent, is
guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail
for up to 90 days, or by a fine of up to four hundred dollars
($400), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
Note they have to be BOTH:
  1. Intimidating or obstructing those attempting to carry on business AND
  2. refusing to leave when asked to do so by the owner or the owner's agent
These men were doing neither: All they were doing was standing in the parking lot reading the Bible aloud... the one guy was, the other two were just standing with him not doing or saying anything
Last edited by GOODave on Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

slowyoroll
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by slowyoroll » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:30 pm

Tweeker Town USA should be happy to hear the Good Word anywhere in that
aweful place..
"IF YOU'RE NOT RICH, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB DON'T BLAME WALL STREET BLAME YOURSELF!"

HERMAN CAIN

IDIOT

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GOODave
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:33 pm

slowyoroll wrote:Tweeker Town USA should be happy to hear the Good Word anywhere in that
aweful place..
It's been awhile since I've been ... but can't say as I disagree.

But that security guard and CHP were sure not having any of it.

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Fordama
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by Fordama » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:50 pm

Should have clubbed them a couple of times first. :rockon:

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Notorious
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by Notorious » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:56 pm

Another example of how reading never did anything for anybody.
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crayegg
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by crayegg » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:58 pm

Did Jesus advocate "in your face" evangelism, to continue after you've been told to leave?

Honest question, I have no idea.

joefutbol
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by joefutbol » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:19 am

GOODave wrote: Note they have to be BOTH:
  1. 1. Intimidating or obstructing those attempting to carry on business
He was using god's wrath to intimidate nonbelievers and sinners in line. That's what Romans 1:18 is all about, isn't it?
GOODave wrote: AND
2. refusing to leave when asked to do so by the owner or the owner's agent[/list]
He was told to leave, and responded with "Sir, I'm gonna keep reading. You need to do what you're gonna do."

Two strikes and you're out.

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:43 am

I guess "Three men arrested for intentionally interfering with any lawful business or occupation carried on by the owner or agent of a business establishment open to the public, by obstructing or intimidating those attempting to carry on business, or their customers, and who refuses to leave the premises of the business establishment after being requested to leave by the owner or the owner's agent, or by a peace officer acting at the request of the owner or owner's agent" was too long to fit in the thread title box, hence the complete fabrication you chose to input instead...got it. :thumbsup:
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oceanvue
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by oceanvue » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:28 am

Notorious wrote:Another example of how reading never did anything for anybody.

I think there's a movie out about it
Image

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GOODave
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:45 am

crayegg wrote:Did Jesus advocate "in your face" evangelism, to continue after you've been told to leave?

Honest question, I have no idea.
Yes.

He regularly preached in the (Jewish) Temple and, when needed, stood up to the Jewish leaders of the time, including the temple guards. His disciples and apostles, notably Peter, John, and Paul (but others as well) also refused to be silenced.

one particularly notable episode with Peter and John happened after they'd been excoriated by the Pharisees to quit preaching but went out and preached anyway. They were dragged in front of the High Priest in Acts 5:27-32:
When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us." But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. "And we are witnesses of these things ; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
And, Fordy: I think they probably WERE beaten a couple times before they let them go...

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GOODave
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:57 am

Omar Bongo wrote:I guess "Three men arrested for intentionally interfering with any lawful business or occupation carried on by the owner or agent of a business establishment open to the public, by obstructing or intimidating those attempting to carry on business, or their customers, and who refuses to leave the premises of the business establishment after being requested to leave by the owner or the owner's agent, or by a peace officer acting at the request of the owner or owner's agent" was too long to fit in the thread title box, hence the complete fabrication you chose to input instead...got it. :thumbsup:
You're wrong (I'm certain this is not the first time you've heard that):

First, they were not interfering with any business or customer thereof. Second, while they did refuse to leave when asked, the code specifically says they are not in violation until they do BOTH (interfere AND refuse to leave).

So the complete fabrication is yours: Got it! :thumbsup:

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Fordama
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by Fordama » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:33 am

GOODave wrote: You're wrong (I'm certain this is not the first time you've heard that):

First, they were not interfering with any business or customer thereof. Second, while they did refuse to leave when asked, the code specifically says they are not in violation until they do BOTH (interfere AND refuse to leave).

So the complete fabrication is yours: Got it! :thumbsup:
You mention interfere but leave out intimidation.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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GOODave
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:49 am

Fordama wrote:You mention interfere but leave out intimidation.

Fordama
I didn't leave it out so much as it wasn't necessary to include. First, I was responding to Bongo ... HE left it out with his attempt to disparage my headline ... and they weren't intimidating anyone, either.

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Fordama
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by Fordama » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:53 am

GOODave wrote:I didn't leave it out so much as it wasn't necessary to include. First, I was responding to Bongo ... HE left it out with his attempt to disparage my headline ... and they weren't intimidating anyone, either.
So the threat of going to Hell is imaginary. I can go along with that.

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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oceanvue
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by oceanvue » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:56 am

Fordama wrote:So the threat of going to Hell is imaginary. I can go along with that.

Fordama
the threat is very real
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GOODave
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:59 am

Fordama wrote:So the threat of going to Hell is imaginary. I can go along with that.

Fordama
Does that intimidate you?

Sorry, I stand corrected.

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John Q. Public
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:01 am

I have to be just a little suspicious of the video, considering that they took a camera to document the "incident" and that it's cropped so tightly and shot from only one angle, facing away from the building and the people they were bothering.

But how do you think the Tweekerville 3 compare to the Philly 2? Especially considering that one of the Philly 2 was fully authorized to be there (around the 4:30 mark).

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Fordama
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by Fordama » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:06 am

GOODave wrote: Does that intimidate you?
Not in the least. However, was that their intention? If they believe that Hell is real then they were trying to intimidate those people doing business there. Then they were asked to leave and refused.

So both "a" and "b" are accounted. Book 'em, Dano.

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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GOODave
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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:11 am

John Q. Public wrote:I have to be just a little suspicious of the video, considering that they took a camera to document the "incident" and that it's cropped so tightly and shot from only one angle, facing away from the building and the people they were bothering.

But how do you think the Tweekerville 3 compare to the Philly 2? Especially considering that one of the Philly 2 was fully authorized to be there (around the 4:30 mark).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wwAsjErHeU[/youtube]
Philly 2 were intimidating (I know: Exhonerated) voters at the polls.

Tweekerville 3 were reading a Bible out loud in the parking lot of a DMV. You use the word "bothering" which, in my mind, doesn't meet the standard for "intimidating" or "interfering."

The CHP officer who arrested that first guy said it was against the law because those standing outside the DMV are a "captive audience," though: Which brings a different wrinkle to it. First, they are so NOT a captive audience as they can come and go as they please and even go INSIDE the building. Second, even if they can be construed "captive," that still doesn't rise to the level of "intimidating" or "bothering."

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Re: Three men arrested for Reading the Bible in a public pla

Post by GOODave » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:13 am

Fordama wrote:Not in the least. However, was that their intention? If they believe that Hell is real then they were trying to intimidate those people doing business there. Then they were asked to leave and refused.

So both "a" and "b" are accounted. Book 'em, Dano.

Fordama
That is likely the most (or at least one of the most) ridiculous assertions you've ever tried to assert.

Go back and read the code that I posted for your enjoyment. Doesn't say anything about "intent to intimidate." It says if "intimidation" or "obstruction" is accomplished.

:lol:

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