Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 decades.

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MDDad
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby MDDad » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:06 pm

Wabash wrote:Which has no relation to the harm that is done to an ecosystem as a result of increased CO2. Predatory plants like kudzu are also aided. Which is not a good thing. Amongst many other negatives as a result of increased CO2 production.

Oh my God, Wabash, haven't you terrified us enough? You already have us scared to death worrying about melting ice caps, and rising ocean levels, and those nasty ozone holes, and swarms of tornados, and teachers armed with guns, and Sean Hannity, and greedy millionaires not paying their fair share, and greedy corporations screwing the labor unions, and illegal aliens not getting a fair shake, and Jews descended from apes and pigs, and Brooke's butterflies, and God knows what else. Now we have to worry about predatory killer kudzu taking over the world as well? Just make it stop! We can't take anymore! Killer kudzu is the last straw! Oh, the humanity!



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Wabash
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Wabash » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:18 pm

MDDad wrote:Oh my God, Wabash, haven't you terrified us enough? You already have us scared to death worrying about melting ice caps, and rising ocean levels, and those nasty ozone holes, and swarms of tornados, and teachers armed with guns, and Sean Hannity, and greedy millionaires not paying their fair share, and greedy corporations screwing the labor unions, and illegal aliens not getting a fair shake, and Jews descended from apes and pigs, and Brooke's butterflies, and God knows what else. Now we have to worry about predatory killer kudzu taking over the world as well? Just make it stop! We can't take anymore! Killer kudzu is the last straw! Oh, the humanity!

I guess so. Given that I've rarely spoken about any of those topics if at all.

You must have me confused with someone else.
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Fordama
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:48 am

"The inescapable if unfashionable conclusion is that the human use of fossil fuels has been causing the greening of the planet in three separate ways: first, by displacing firewood as a fuel; second, by warming the climate.."

Whaddya know, Kramer brought in an article explicitly stating that global climate change is caused by man's use of fossil fuel!

Excellent.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:26 am

Fordama wrote:"The inescapable if unfashionable conclusion is that the human use of fossil fuels has been causing the greening of the planet in three separate ways: first, by displacing firewood as a fuel; second, by warming the climate.."

Whaddya know, Kramer brought in an article explicitly stating that global climate change is caused by man's use of fossil fuel!

Excellent.

Fordama


Well whaddya know, the great Fordursky again shows he possess conspiratorial and science denying tendencies by cherry picking (anomaly hunting) only two of the three points about the greening of the Earth He conveniently left out the third reason stated for the greening and that is that CO2 is feeding the plants and trees...
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Fordama
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:54 am

kramer wrote:
Well whaddya know, the great Fordursky again shows he possess conspiratorial and science denying tendencies by cherry picking (anomaly hunting) only two of the three points about the greening of the Earth He conveniently left out the third reason stated for the greening and that is that CO2 is feeding the plants and trees...

I didn't cherry pick anything. You really don't understand what cherry picking and anomaly hunting is. Premises and conclusions are how the main points are made.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:01 pm

Fordama wrote:I didn't cherry pick anything. You really don't understand what cherry picking and anomaly hunting is. Premises and conclusions are how the main points are made.

Fordama



You noted the first two reasons for the greening and left out the third because the third reason is that more CO2 in the air feeds plants and trees. This is what you and other leftists call cherry picking.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Fordama
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:09 pm

kramer wrote:

You noted the first two reasons for the greening and left out the third because the third reason is that more CO2 in the air feeds plants and trees. This is what you and other leftists call cherry picking.

I din't ignore them, in fact I included them in the quote.

You are the one who has been desperately trying to deny that global climate change could be caused by human activity. Then you bring in an article that flat out says that it is.

So is the article wrong or right, or are you just picking out what you like?

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:38 pm

kramer wrote:

You noted the first two reasons for the greening and left out the third because the third reason is that more CO2 in the air feeds plants and trees. This is what you and other leftists call cherry picking.


Fordama wrote:I din't ignore them, in fact I included them in the quote.

No, you didn't, you only copied the first two reasons from the article. You left out the last reason about the added plant and tree food in the air.

Fordama wrote:You are the one who has been desperately trying to deny that global climate change could be caused by human activity.

I've said here many times that I do not dispute that CO2 is a warming gas and that it is increasing from humans and that it will or could cause warming.

I dispute (or question) the claim that all of the warming that we have had is from CO2.

Fordama wrote: Then you bring in an article that flat out says that it is.

Many, if not most of the articles I linked to say it is happening. So?...


Fordama wrote:So is the article wrong or right, or are you just picking out what you like?

Fordama

The article says the Earth is getting greener due to human use of fossil fuels. It lists 3 reasons for it:
1) by displacing firewood as a fuel
2) by warming the climate;
3) by raising carbon dioxide levels, which raise plant growth rates.

I don't dispute these 3 reasons listed as to why the Earth has greened from fossil fuels.

I question number 2, the amount of warming that scientists claimed it has caused. As the NASA article I linked to in the other thread shows, scientists are realizing that the Sun is playing a bigger role than they realized. Put another way, they don't fully understand climate science yet.
Meanwhile policy-makers eagerly want us to go along with a massive transformation of our society into some low-consumption and heavily socialist regulated economy along with a massive transfer of our wealth to the third world as reparations for colonialism and to help build up their countries so that more of their women can get jobs and hence have less kids so that this slows down population growth.

It's not going to happen under my watch if I can help it...
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Brooke
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Brooke » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:41 pm

MDDad wrote:Oh my God, Wabash, haven't you terrified us enough? You already have us scared to death worrying about melting ice caps, and rising ocean levels, and those nasty ozone holes, and swarms of tornados, and teachers armed with guns, and Sean Hannity, and greedy millionaires not paying their fair share, and greedy corporations screwing the labor unions, and illegal aliens not getting a fair shake, and Jews descended from apes and pigs, and Brooke's butterflies, and God knows what else. Now we have to worry about predatory killer kudzu taking over the world as well? Just make it stop! We can't take anymore! Killer kudzu is the last straw! Oh, the humanity!

Gosh my name pops up in the weirdest places. And my butterflies too! Thank you MDDad because it gives me the opportunity to note that the last butterfly was born or emerged on January 5th. Over a period of several weeks I released 43 butterflies. Really late this year. I hope they made it to San Clemente or Doheny to overwinter and wait for spring.

For some reason I managed to release only about half of those last year. 400 at the most.

Now I have to go to the butterfly thread and note the dates so I will know where to look for dates and numbers next season.

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Fordama
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:51 pm

kramer wrote:No, you didn't, you only copied the first two reasons from the article. You left out the last reason about the added plant and tree food in the air. .

Doesn't matter. It still says flat-out that global warming is being caused by man. Not surprising given that pretty much the vast bulk of the scientific world already understands that, but I figure it is important to keep pointing that out to you.

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Parrotpaul » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:55 pm

Slow-learners need extra-attention. Kraner...you can thank a teacher for getting your engineering type self through high school chemistry. :cheers:
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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:34 pm

kramer wrote:No, you didn't, you only copied the first two reasons from the article. You left out the last reason about the added plant and tree food in the air. .



Fordama wrote:Doesn't matter.


Finally, you admit it...


Fordama wrote: It still says flat-out that global warming is being caused by man.



They assume it's caused by man. A 1979 research paper said the world was going to warm up from 1985 until 2000 where it would then get very cold, perhaps for up to 50 years.

Fordama wrote: Not surprising given that pretty much the vast bulk of the scientific world already understands that, but I figure it is important to keep pointing that out to you.


The bulk of the scientific world looks at the temperature data run b 3 small and connected organizations [Metoffice (Hadcrut), NCDC (NOAA), and GISS (NASA)] that track the world's global historical temperature. So whatever they put out, the bulk of the scientific world "understands" and agrees with.
And this is where claim that thousands of scientists agree that the world is warming. Those thousands of scientists aren't placing thermometers all over the world and measuring their own data. They are using whatever adjusted data these 3 groups put out.

And gong back to these 3 small groups that track global temperature, we've already had a scientist admit that 80% of the ozone measurements were either faked or incompletely done. So it isn't entirely impossible that the temperature data is also being faked. And indeed, there is lots of evidence of [s]tampering[/s] [url=Metoffice (Hadcrut), NCDC.NOAA, and GISS.NASA]adjustments[/url] going on and in most cases, older data is cooled and newer data is warmed.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Parrotpaul wrote:Slow-learners need extra-attention. Kraner...you can thank a teacher for getting your engineering type self through high school chemistry. :cheers:


I hated chemistry. I never took it in high school and in fact, it was the very last class I took before I got my BSEE. I put it off until the last minute and ended up taking it in a summer class. I remember I started skipping the labs and then one night I was home and the instructor called me and practically ripped me a new one and said if I don't make up all those labs, I'd flunk the course. I ended up taking the labs with a lab partner that looked like a valley girl with all kinds of earrings and I think a few tattoos...
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Wabash
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Wabash » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:09 pm

kramer wrote:So it isn't entirely impossible that the temperature data is also being faked.

Agreed.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:17 pm

kramer wrote:So it isn't entirely impossible that the temperature data is also being faked.


Wabash wrote:Agreed.


Wait, what?...

Wabash on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:51 pm wrote:I don't read anything you post since you have a rep for cherry picking what supports your narrative.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19068&p=428967&hilit=kramer#p428967


If you don't read anything I post, how did you find this mangled English comment of mine in this medium-sized post a few posts back?



And here is a great example of how the NOAA's NCDC adjusts temperature:
In July of 2012, NCDC said that the US's July 1936 temperature was 77.4 degrees.
Now they say the US's July 1936 temperature was 76.4 degrees.

Source

Wow, in a span of just 6 months, the July 1936 temperature was 'adjusted' cooler by 1 degree.

Cmon Wabash, this data readjustments reek of data tampering. I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future, somebody's conscience gets the better of him/her and they come forward and admit massaging data for no valid scientific reason.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Wabash
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Wabash » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:40 pm

kramer wrote:Cmon Wabash, this data readjustments reek of data tampering. I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future, somebody's conscience gets the better of him/her and they come forward and admit massaging data for no valid scientific reason.

C'mon kramer. I'm still going to trust NOAA more than you or any of your crackpot websites.

The data only reeks of tampering to the tin foil hat crowd that have produced any science of their own and spend their time criticizing the data and work of others.
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AsIfYouKnew
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby AsIfYouKnew » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:01 pm

Fordama wrote:Doesn't matter. It still says flat-out that global warming is being caused by man. Not surprising given that pretty much the vast bulk of the scientific world already understands that, but I figure it is important to keep pointing that out to you.

Fordama


I might have missed something, but I thought that this report said the earth was "greening", not "warming".
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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:03 pm

Wabash wrote:C'mon kramer. I'm still going to trust NOAA more than you or any of your crackpot websites.


This is almost the exact response that I expected from you... You liberals are so predictable.

And you read yet another post of mine. You said a few days ago that you don't read them.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Fordama
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby Fordama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:38 pm

AsIfYouKnew wrote:
I might have missed something, but I thought that this report said the earth was "greening", not "warming".

It says both. However, given that there is no scientific definition for "greening*" I only bothered to talk about what is scientifically defined.

Fordama

*I'm letting kramer go on for a while with with this whole concept of "greening" until he figures out that it's a term that doesn't really have a meaning.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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kramer
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Re: Green vegetation on Earth has been increasing for 3 deca

Postby kramer » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:46 pm

Fordama wrote:*I'm letting kramer go on for a while with with this whole concept of "greening" until he figures out that it's a term that doesn't really have a meaning.


Sounds like your stumped to me...
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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