NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in sun

Space, the environment, new discoveries and new uses for old ones
Post Reply
User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in sun

Post by kramer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:51 am

I've hunted the anomalies in the following NASA article in order to show my non-scientific thinking which proves I'm a conspiracy theorist:
Jan. 8, 2013:  In the galactic scheme of things, the Sun is a remarkably constant star.  While some stars exhibit dramatic pulsations, wildly yo-yoing in size and brightness, and sometimes even exploding, the luminosity of our own sun varies a measly 0.1% over the course of the 11-year solar cycle. 

There is, however, a dawning realization among researchers that even these apparently tiny variations can have a significant effect on terrestrial climate. A new report issued by the National Research Council (NRC), "The Effects of Solar Variability on Earth's Climate," lays out some of the surprisingly complex ways that solar activity can make itself felt on our planet.

. . .

One of the participants, Greg Kopp of the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics at the University of Colorado, pointed out that while the variations in luminosity over the 11-year solar cycle amount to only a tenth of a percent of the sun's total output, such a small fraction is still important.  "Even typical short term variations of 0.1% in incident irradiance exceed all other energy sources (such as natural radioactivity in Earth's core) combined," he says.

Of particular importance is the sun's extreme ultraviolet (EUV) radiation, which peaks during the years around solar maximum.  Within the relatively narrow band of EUV wavelengths, the sun’s output varies not by a minuscule 0.1%, but by whopping factors of 10 or more.  This can strongly affect the chemistry and thermal structure of the upper atmosphere.

Several researchers discussed how changes in the upper atmosphere can trickle down to Earth's surface.  There are many "top-down" pathways for the sun's influence.  For instance, Charles Jackman of the Goddard Space Flight Center described how nitrogen oxides (NOx) created by solar energetic particles and cosmic rays in the stratosphere could reduce ozone levels by a few percent.  Because ozone absorbs UV radiation, less ozone means that more UV rays from the sun would reach Earth's surface.

Isaac Held of NOAA took this one step further.  He described how loss of ozone in the stratosphere could alter the dynamics of the atmosphere below it.  "The cooling of the polar stratosphere associated with loss of ozone increases the horizontal temperature gradient near the tropopause,” he explains. “This alters the flux of angular momentum by mid-latitude eddies.  [Angular momentum is important because] the angular momentum budget of the troposphere controls the surface westerlies."  In other words, solar activity felt in the upper atmosphere can, through a complicated series of influences, push surface storm tracks off course.

. . .

Indeed, Gerald Meehl of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) presented persuasive evidence that solar variability is leaving an imprint on climate, especially in the Pacific. According to the report, when researchers look at sea surface temperature data during sunspot peak years, the tropical Pacific shows a pronounced La Nina-like pattern, with a cooling of almost 1o C in the equatorial eastern Pacific. In addition, "there are signs of enhanced precipitation in the Pacific ITCZ (Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone ) and SPCZ (South Pacific Convergence Zone) as well as above-normal sea-level pressure in the mid-latitude North and South Pacific," correlated with peaks in the sunspot cycle.

The solar cycle signals are so strong in the Pacific, that Meehl and colleagues have begun to wonder if something in the Pacific climate system is acting to amplify them. "One of the mysteries regarding Earth's climate system ... is how the relatively small fluctuations of the 11-year solar cycle can produce the magnitude of the observed climate signals in the tropical Pacific."  Using supercomputer models of climate, they show that not only "top-down" but also "bottom-up" mechanisms involving atmosphere-ocean interactions are required to amplify solar forcing at the surface of the Pacific.

In recent years, researchers have considered the possibility that the sun plays a role in global warming. After all, the sun is the main source of heat for our planet. The NRC report suggests, however, that the influence of solar variability is more regional than global.  The Pacific region is only one example. 

. . .

Much has been made of the probable connection between the Maunder Minimum, a 70-year deficit of sunspots in the late 17th-early 18th century, and the coldest part of the Little Ice Age, during which Europe and North America were subjected to bitterly cold winters.  The mechanism for that regional cooling could have been a drop in the sun’s EUV output; this is, however, speculative.

Dan Lubin of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography pointed out the value of looking at sun-like stars elsewhere in the Milky Way to determine the frequency of similar grand minima. “Early estimates of grand minimum frequency in solar-type stars ranged from 10% to 30%, implying the sun’s influence could be overpowering.  More recent studies using data from Hipparcos (a European Space Agency astrometry satellite) and properly accounting for the metallicity of the stars, place the estimate in the range of less than 3%.”   This is not a large number, but it is significant. 

Indeed, the sun could be on the threshold of a mini-Maunder event right nowOngoing Solar Cycle 24 is the weakest in more than 50 years.  Moreover, there is (controversial) evidence of a long-term weakening trend in the magnetic field strength of sunspots. Matt Penn and William Livingston of the National Solar Observatory predict that by the time Solar Cycle 25 arrives, magnetic fields on the sun will be so weak that few if any sunspots will be formed. Independent lines of research involving helioseismology and surface polar fields tend to support their conclusion. (Note: Penn and Livingston were not participants at the NRC workshop.)

“If the sun really is entering an unfamiliar phase of the solar cycle, then we must redouble our efforts to understand the sun-climate link,” notes Lika Guhathakurta of NASA’s Living with a Star Program, which helped fund the NRC study. “The report offers some good ideas for how to get started.”
[Wait, what?... Al Gore said the science was settled back in 2007!...]


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... unclimate/
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

MDDad
Posts: 12123
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by MDDad » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:13 am

In recent years, researchers have considered the possibility that the sun plays a role in global warming.
No kidding? I hope we didn't pay these guys any grant money to figure this one out.

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18139
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by Fordama » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:51 am

So? Doesn't mean a thing when it comes to anthropogenic climate change. What Kramer ignores it that these same scientist don't dispute the conclusions of climate scientists.

What kramer wants us to believe is that this somehow questions anthropogenic climate change. It doesn't. He's just hoping that the reader just forgets the first few sentences.

The fact is that this information simply points out that the Sun has an effect over its eleven year cycle. These changes could amplify or minimize the anthropogenic changes in the climate.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by kramer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:40 pm

Fordama wrote:So? Doesn't mean a thing when it comes to anthropogenic climate change.
Sure it does. It's saying that the Sun is playing a bigger role in Earth's climate than the settled science thought...

Fordama wrote:What Kramer ignores it that these same scientist don't dispute the conclusions of climate scientists.
I ignore it because the areas designed to shape public opinion (main stream media, tv, movies, academia, NGOs) have been informing us non-stop for over a decade on AGW.

All I want to do is point out the weaknesses.
Fordama wrote:What kramer wants us to believe is that this somehow questions anthropogenic climate change.
Yes. It should be questioned.
Fordama wrote: It doesn't.
Yes it does.
Fordama wrote: He's just hoping that the reader just forgets the first few sentences.
No, I want the reader to remember what I pointed out.
Fordama wrote:The fact is that this information simply points out that the Sun has an effect over its eleven year cycle.
This information shows that scientists are starting to realize the Sun has a bigger role over our climate than the settled science thought.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18139
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:38 am

kramer wrote: Sure it does.[/b].


This information shows that scientists are starting to realize the Sun has a bigger role over our climate than the settled science thought.
No it doesn't---the report you brought in even said it doesn't. You have simply manufactured the idea that it does out of thin air.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:16 am

kramer wrote: Sure it does.


This information shows that scientists are starting to realize the Sun has a bigger role over our climate than the settled science thought.
Fordama wrote:No it doesn't---the report you brought in even said it doesn't. You have simply manufactured the idea that it does out of thin air.

Fordama
I "manufactured" it from the following statement from the article:

"There is, however, a dawning realization among researchers that even these apparently tiny variations can have a significant effect on terrestrial climate"

What does this statement say? It says two things:
1) That scientists are starting to learn that tiny changes in the Sun can have large effects on our climate.
2) And that whatever climate changes we have been seeing that have been attributed to global warming are now in question (to a degree (pun intended)) because prior to this "dawning realization" of the Sun's role, most of the recent climate changes on Earth have been attributed to global warming.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18139
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by Fordama » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:58 pm

kramer wrote:

I "manufactured" it from the following statement from the article:

"There is, however, a dawning realization among researchers that even these apparently tiny variations can have a significant effect on terrestrial climate"

What does this statement say? It says two things:
One of which you manufacture out of thin air as the article doesn't infer it at all.

You are like Alex Jones--you throw out links, graphs, charts, and tons of information and then simply manufacture alternate meanings. In the meantime you ignore the vast bulk of confirmed information.

Don't take an aspirin if you get a headache--hundreds of people die from it every year, so obviously modern science is wrong about headaches.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by kramer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:50 pm

kramer wrote:

I "manufactured" it from the following statement from the article:

"There is, however, a dawning realization among researchers that even these apparently tiny variations can have a significant effect on terrestrial climate"

What does this statement say? It says two things:
Fordama wrote:One of which you manufacture out of thin air as the article doesn't infer it at all.
It says exactly what I say it says. You don't like what it says so you deny it.
Fordama wrote:You are like Alex Jones--you throw out links, graphs, charts, and tons of information and then simply manufacture alternate meanings.
I point out what the weaknesses or contradictions in the science is showing.


Fordama wrote: In the meantime you ignore the vast bulk of confirmed information.
Yes. Scientists have lied, massaged data, deleted data, deleted emails, hid declines, generated graphs using bad math, avoided FOI requests, kept public emails private, and faked data.
Fordama wrote:Don't take an aspirin if you get a headache--hundreds of people die from it every year, so obviously modern science is wrong about headaches.

Fordama
Duh, have you ever heard me (or any other climate skeptic) question the following science fields?:

Acoustics The study of sound.
Aeronautics Aircraft design, construction, and navigation.
Agronomy science of soil management and crop production
Anatomy The study of organisms and their parts.
Anthropology The study of the origin, behavior, and the physical, social, and cultural development of humans.
Archaeology The study of past human lives by examining remaining material evidence.
Astronomy The study of outer space.
Astrophysics The branch of astronomy that deals with the physics of stellar phenomena.
Bacteriology The study of bacteria, especially in relation to medicine and agriculture.
Biochemistry The study of the chemical substances and processes in living organisms.
Biology The science of life and living organisms
Botany The study of plants.
Cardiology The medical study of the heart.
Cartography The art or technique of making maps or charts.
Chemistry The science of the composition, structure, properties, and reactions of matter, especially of atomic and molecular systems.
Cosmology The study of the physical universe considered as a totality of phenomena in time and space.
Crystallography The science of crystal structure and phenomena.
Ecology The study of organisms and their environment.
Embryology The study of the formation, early growth, and development of living organisms.
Endocrinology The study of the glands and hormones of the body.
Entomology The scientific study of insects.
Enzymology The study of the biochemical nature and activity of enzymes.
Forestry The science and art of cultivating, maintaining, and developing forests.
Gelotology The study of laughter.
Genetics The study of heredity and inherited traits.
Geochemistry The chemistry of the composition and alterations of the solid matter of the earth or a celestial body.
Geodesy The geologic science of the size and shape of the earth.
Geography The study of the earth and its features.
Geology The scientific study of the origin, history, and structure of the earth.
Geophysics The physics of the earth and its environment, including the physics of fields such as meteorology, oceanography, and seismology
Hematology The study of the blood and blood-producing organs.
Histology The study of the microscopic structure of animal and plant tissues.
Horology The science of measuring time and making time pieces
Hydrology The study of the properties and effects of water on earth.
Ichthyology The study of fish.
Immunology The study of the immune system of the body.
Linguistics The study of language and phonetics.
Mechanics Design, construction, and use of machinery or mechanical structures.
Medicine The science of diagnosing and treating disease and damage to the body.
Metrology The science of measurement.
Microbiology The study of microorganisms and their effects on other living organisms.
Mineralogy The study of minerals, including their distribution, identification, and properties.
Mycology The branch of botany that deals with fungi.
Neurology The study of the nervous system and disorders affecting it.
Nucleonics The study of the behavior and characteristics of nucleons or atomic nuclei.
Nutrition The study of food and nourishment.
Oceanography The exploration and study of the ocean.
Oncology The study of the development, diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of tumors.
Optics The study of light and vision.
Paleontology The study of prehistoric life through fossils.
Pathology The study of disease and its causes, processes, development, and consequences.
Petrology The study of the origin, composition, structure, and alteration of rocks.
Pharmacology The science of the composition, use, and effects of drugs.
Physics The science of matter and energy and interactions between the two.
Physiology The study of the functions of living organisms.
Psychology The study of the mental process and behavior.
Radiology The use of radioactive substances in diagnosis and treatment of disease.
Robotics The science of technology to design, fabrication, and application of robots.
Seismology The study of earthquakes.
Spectroscopy The study of radiant light.
Systematics The science of systematic classification.
Thermodynamics The study of relationships and conversions between heat and other forms of energy.
Toxicology The study of poisons and the treatment of poisoning.
Virology The study of viruses and viral diseases.
Volcanology The study of volcanoes and volcanic phenomena.
Zoology the study of the structure, physiology, development, and classification of animals.

I question climate science because I've seen the fraud and unethical science in it and because it's a tool being leveraged by the left to impose their leftist one world government that FDR and the UN wanted and which is still desired today.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18139
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: NASA-large effects on Earth climate from tiny changes in

Post by Fordama » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:42 pm

kramer wrote:

It says exactly what I say it says. You don't like what it says so you deny it.


I point out what the weaknesses or contradictions in the science is showing.



In typcial Alex Jones fashion, you confuse word-count with having an argument.

Fordama
Yes. Scientists have lied, massaged data, deleted data, deleted emails, hid declines, generated graphs using bad math, avoided FOI requests, kept public emails private, and faked data.



Duh, have you ever heard me (or any other climate skeptic) question the following science fields?:

Acoustics The study of sound.
Aeronautics Aircraft design, construction, and navigation.
Agronomy science of soil management and crop production
Anatomy The study of organisms and their parts.
Anthropology The study of the origin, behavior, and the physical, social, and cultural development of humans.
Archaeology The study of past human lives by examining remaining material evidence.
Astronomy The study of outer space.
Astrophysics The branch of astronomy that deals with the physics of stellar phenomena.
Bacteriology The study of bacteria, especially in relation to medicine and agriculture.
Biochemistry The study of the chemical substances and processes in living organisms.
Biology The science of life and living organisms
Botany The study of plants.
Cardiology The medical study of the heart.
Cartography The art or technique of making maps or charts.
Chemistry The science of the composition, structure, properties, and reactions of matter, especially of atomic and molecular systems.
Cosmology The study of the physical universe considered as a totality of phenomena in time and space.
Crystallography The science of crystal structure and phenomena.
Ecology The study of organisms and their environment.
Embryology The study of the formation, early growth, and development of living organisms.
Endocrinology The study of the glands and hormones of the body.
Entomology The scientific study of insects.
Enzymology The study of the biochemical nature and activity of enzymes.
Forestry The science and art of cultivating, maintaining, and developing forests.
Gelotology The study of laughter.
Genetics The study of heredity and inherited traits.
Geochemistry The chemistry of the composition and alterations of the solid matter of the earth or a celestial body.
Geodesy The geologic science of the size and shape of the earth.
Geography The study of the earth and its features.
Geology The scientific study of the origin, history, and structure of the earth.
Geophysics The physics of the earth and its environment, including the physics of fields such as meteorology, oceanography, and seismology
Hematology The study of the blood and blood-producing organs.
Histology The study of the microscopic structure of animal and plant tissues.
Horology The science of measuring time and making time pieces
Hydrology The study of the properties and effects of water on earth.
Ichthyology The study of fish.
Immunology The study of the immune system of the body.
Linguistics The study of language and phonetics.
Mechanics Design, construction, and use of machinery or mechanical structures.
Medicine The science of diagnosing and treating disease and damage to the body.
Metrology The science of measurement.
Microbiology The study of microorganisms and their effects on other living organisms.
Mineralogy The study of minerals, including their distribution, identification, and properties.
Mycology The branch of botany that deals with fungi.
Neurology The study of the nervous system and disorders affecting it.
Nucleonics The study of the behavior and characteristics of nucleons or atomic nuclei.
Nutrition The study of food and nourishment.
Oceanography The exploration and study of the ocean.
Oncology The study of the development, diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of tumors.
Optics The study of light and vision.
Paleontology The study of prehistoric life through fossils.
Pathology The study of disease and its causes, processes, development, and consequences.
Petrology The study of the origin, composition, structure, and alteration of rocks.
Pharmacology The science of the composition, use, and effects of drugs.
Physics The science of matter and energy and interactions between the two.
Physiology The study of the functions of living organisms.
Psychology The study of the mental process and behavior.
Radiology The use of radioactive substances in diagnosis and treatment of disease.
Robotics The science of technology to design, fabrication, and application of robots.
Seismology The study of earthquakes.
Spectroscopy The study of radiant light.
Systematics The science of systematic classification.
Thermodynamics The study of relationships and conversions between heat and other forms of energy.
Toxicology The study of poisons and the treatment of poisoning.
Virology The study of viruses and viral diseases.
Volcanology The study of volcanoes and volcanic phenomena.
Zoology the study of the structure, physiology, development, and classification of animals.

I question climate science because I've seen the fraud and unethical science in it and because it's a tool being leveraged by the left to impose their leftist one world government that FDR and the UN wanted and which is still desired today.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Post Reply