"Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2"

Space, the environment, new discoveries and new uses for old ones
User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

"Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2"

Postby kramer » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:54 am

"In the real world, global temp not controlled exclusively by CO2"
- Professor Maurice Salby, Chair of Climate, Macquarie University

Around 1 hour, 40 seconds in the video, he says:

"A fractional increase of CO2 entirely determines the fractional increase of global temperature. The simulated relationship is remarkable. Here's why. Remember the global energy budget. It is what determines global temperature. Increased CO2 contributes to the energy budget but only at the 1 percent level. The one to one correspondence indicates the changes in global temperature remain in equilibrium with changes in CO2, but nothing else."

Sounds to me like he's saying CO2 is responsible for only around 1% of the recent warming.


I posted a thread on this guy's claims here a few years ago. The following video is an update and was taken in April of 2013. The last 10 minutes are worth watching.



[bbvideo=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ROw_cDKwc0[/bbvideo]
Video source


“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18125
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby Fordama » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:09 am

kramer wrote:"In the real world, global temp not controlled exclusively by CO2"

No scientist thinks it is.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby kramer » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:13 am

I bet I can produce a few that said 90% of the warming has been from CO2.

Anyway, Salby sounds as if he's saying CO2 is responsible for about 1% of the warming. If I'm right, that's a massive downgrade from what warming CO2 has been blamed for.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18125
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby Fordama » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:20 pm

kramer wrote:I bet I can produce a few that said 90% of the warming has been from CO2.

Find those studies from the last couple of years that say that.

Secondly, there is a difference between "not controlled exclusively, "--which is what it it seems you're twisting your nipples over, and 90%.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby kramer » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:58 pm

kramer wrote:I bet I can produce a few that said 90% of the warming has been from CO2.

Fordama wrote:Find those studies from the last couple of years that say that.


How much warming are humans causing?

In response to the 97 percent consensus survey, some readers also asked exactly how much of the observed global warming is due to human activities. In our survey of the climate science researchers, of the 237 papers that took a position on the amount of human-caused warming, over 96 percent responded that humans have caused at least half of the warming over the past 50 years. This is actually a conservative estimate, since the research estimating the various contributions to global warming almost universally puts the human contribution at close to 100 percent over the past 50 years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/c ... -assembled


Mr Cook said studies have tried to put a number on how much of global warming is caused by humans, "and the rough answer is, all of it".

http://www.watoday.com.au/environment/c ... 2opo7.html



Here's a graphic that looks as if it shows humans are responsible for over 100% of the warming:
Image

(I know I've got a few other links that claim humans are responsible for over 100% of the recent warming but I can't find them...)
Last edited by kramer on Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

MDDad
Posts: 12093
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby MDDad » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:24 pm

Kramer, all that chart proves is that climate scientists aren't very good at math.

Oh, wait, that's all they do, isn't it?

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby kramer » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:07 pm

MDDad wrote:Kramer, all that chart proves is that climate scientists aren't very good at math.

Oh, wait, that's all they do, isn't it?



I also think it shouldn't make much difference to PCs calculated with the covariance matrix. It might change the order of some. This appears to relate to Mike's calculation of PCs using SVD. I'm not good enough at Maths to know why.

Climate 'scientist' Phil Jones in a climategate email
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby kramer » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:20 pm

A related story to the OP:

Swedish scientist replicates Dr. Murry Salby's work, finding man-made CO2 does not drive climate change
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/ ... murry.html
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18125
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby Fordama » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:31 pm

kramer wrote:A related story to the OP:

Swedish scientist replicates Dr. Murry Salby's work, finding man-made CO2 does not drive climate change
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/ ... murry.html

As usual, you and the media get it wrong.

Cherry picking is not intellectually healthy.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby kramer » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:50 am

Fordama wrote:As usual, you and the media get it wrong.

Cherry picking is not intellectually healthy.

Fordama


Looks to me like the real deniers are the ones who take a title such as "Swedish scientist replicates Dr. Murry Salby's work, finding man-made CO2 does not drive climate change" and call it cherry picking.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18125
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby Fordama » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:51 am

kramer wrote:Looks to me like the real deniers are the ones who take a title such as "Swedish scientist replicates Dr. Murry Salby's work, finding man-made CO2 does not drive climate change" and call it cherry picking.

Seeing how Salby's work is unpublished, the Swedish scientist must have used some sort of psychic powers to recreate the work.

When is Salby going to submit his work for publication? Youtube doesn't count.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 8852
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby kramer » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:09 pm

Fordama wrote:Seeing how Salby's work is unpublished, the Swedish scientist must have used some sort of psychic powers to recreate the work.


Salby pretty much explained what he did on video. Not hard to recreate.

Fordama wrote:When is Salby going to submit his work for publication? Youtube doesn't count.


Probably soon.

For the record, I'm a bit skeptical of Salby's claim. Reading what Dr Curry had to say about it gives it some credibility.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18125
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: "Global temperature is not controlled exclusively by CO2

Postby Fordama » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:24 pm

kramer wrote:Probably soon.

I don't know. In January of 2012 he said he would be publishing his study in six months. It's been eighteen months.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Return to “Science and Technology”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron